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- Wow 50% of transgender veterans are hospitalized due to suicidal behavior
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And 90% leave war with either PTSD or depression...
Source: The Endocrine Society Date: April 2016 Seems like Trump might be right
"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president. |
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That statistic is worrying on several levels that I daren't speculate on.
CE's Resident Scotsman.
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z316/CeliaOfTheSky/Pinky0926.jpg |
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Link to source?
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248 |
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Sephiroth1288 posted...
Link to source? I put the source in the OP @Sephiroth1288
"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president. |
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How does that differ from cisgender veterans? For context.
Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.
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PoopMcgee420 posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...Link to source? Found it https://www.endocrine.org/news-room/press-release-archives/2016/transgender-veterans-have-high-rates-of-mental-health-problems
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248 |
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Sephiroth1288 posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...Sephiroth1288 posted...Link to source? Ya sorry was gonnna post the link when i found it. Thank you @Sephiroth1288
"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president. |
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joeun_saram posted...
when you consider how few transgender there actually are in the service... Completely irrelevant lol
"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president. |
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Sounds like the military is a very tough place on the trans community and that they are working to help these veterans get the help they need.
(edited 1 day ago)quote
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Puts the issue to bed for me. Clearly not fit for service, so let's stop kidding ourselves.
- The Admiral
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Sephiroth1288 posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...Sephiroth1288 posted...Link to source? Probably multiple reasons exist for the increased rates of mental health disorders they observed in transgender veterans. Grotzke said that traumatic brain injuries sustained in combat, military sexual abuse, and stigma related to gender struggles are common in this population. Important paragraph. Trans people aren't naturally more prone to these problems, it's the stigma and the way they're treated by society that creates a large portion of those issues. Kind of common sense if you think about it. Bet if you go back 30 years or so, gay people had higher rates of mental issues as well.
even if I were a woman, I would never want to be my girlfriend - Franklin
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PoopMcgee420 posted...
joeun_saram posted...when you consider how few transgender there actually are in the service... Irrelevant to how much it actually comes to impact total combat readiness? No...
im a good person
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hockeybub89 posted...
Sounds like the military is a very tough place. It is.
"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president. |
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The Admiral posted...
Puts the issue to bed for me. Clearly not fit for service, so let's stop kidding ourselves. There you go not reading as you are known to do. Why don't you cite that Sweden study or conclude black people are naturally less intelligent again? |
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Bullet_Wing posted...
Important paragraph. Trans people aren't naturally more prone to these problems, it's the stigma and the way they're treated by society that creates a large portion of those issues. Kind of common sense if you think about it. Not at the levels transgenders have. Transgenders out of the military have a suicide rate today of about 40% while gays, even in the 80's during the AIDS epidemic, didn't even get to half of that figure.
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248
(edited 1 day ago)quote
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The Admiral posted...
Puts the issue to bed for me. Clearly not fit for service, so let's stop kidding ourselves.
S / K / Y / N / E
Twitch/YouTube/GT: Adzeta |
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PoopMcgee420 posted...
hockeybub89 posted...Sounds like the military is a very tough place. And sexual abuse and social stigma, big issues in the military, seem to make it even harder on certain people. |
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hockeybub89 posted...
The Admiral posted...Puts the issue to bed for me. Clearly not fit for service, so let's stop kidding ourselves. Sorry if your feelings once again don't align with reality.
- The Admiral
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Duncanwii posted...
Fine then, kick out the ones who are suicidal. The ones who are not however have no reason not to serve and a blanket ban on all because of a few isn't right or fair. Lmao umm thats not how it works. Combine the mental health issues ans combat readiness i understand the ban
"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president. |
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Another question. Out of those 50% of veterans, how well did they serve?
Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.
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Duncanwii posted...
Fine then, kick out the ones who are suicidal. The ones who are not however have no reason not to serve and a blanket ban on all because of a few isn't right or fair. Problem is, there's no good way to tell who's suicidal and who isn't That's why there's also a blanket ban on everyone diagnosed with depression.
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248 |
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Bullet_Wing posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...PoopMcgee420 posted...Sephiroth1288 posted...Link to source? .dont use emotions as a form of debate.lol
"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president. |
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Why would you need veterans to be combat ready?
Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.
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scar the 1 posted...
Another question. Out of those 50% of veterans, how well did they serve? Whats the relevance?
"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president. |
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hockeybub89 posted...
The Admiral posted...hockeybub89 posted...The Admiral posted...Puts the issue to bed for me. Clearly not fit for service, so let's stop kidding ourselves. Theres nothing wrong with the ban. Better safe than sorry. Peoples safety will always out weigh peoples feelings.
"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president. |
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PoopMcgee420 posted...
scar the 1 posted...Another question. Out of those 50% of veterans, how well did they serve? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "veteran" the word for someone who has already served?
Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.
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scar the 1 posted...
Why would you need veterans to be combat ready? @scar_the_1 you trolling....
"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president. |
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scar the 1 posted...
Why would you need veterans to be combat ready? Combat-ready? I'd be happy with them being mentally stable.
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248 |
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PoopMcgee420 posted...
scar the 1 posted...Why would you need veterans to be combat ready? scar the 1 posted... Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "veteran" the word for someone who has already served?
Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.
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scar the 1 posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...scar the 1 posted...Another question. Out of those 50% of veterans, how well did they serve? Holy shit... *ignores user*
"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president. |
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scar the 1 posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...scar the 1 posted...Why would you need veterans to be combat ready? You are a troll or not up-to-par to be in this conversation
"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president. |
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hockeybub89 posted...
The Admiral posted...hockeybub89 posted...The Admiral posted...Puts the issue to bed for me. Clearly not fit for service, so let's stop kidding ourselves. Apparently the same amount of brain damage the military has always had, since there are several dozen types of physical and psychological disorders that bar people from service for far less severe issues than this. Once again, your feelings are absolutely irrelevant here. It's great that you have places like CE and Tumblr to indulge your delusions, but the military is the big boy world where this garbage is disregarded.
- The Admiral
(edited 1 day ago)quote
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PoopMcgee420 posted...
Holy s***... Dude, I'm not being snide. I literally don't know? I thought veterans were people who served but stopped serving.
Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.
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scar the 1 posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...Holy s***... Yes, they stopped serving...because of extreme psychological trauma.
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248 |
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Sephiroth1288 posted...
scar the 1 posted...PoopMcgee420 posted...Holy s***... Oh ok, so that's the reason they became vets? I see. And how do those numbers correlate with the bad treatment they're getting?
Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.
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PoopMcgee420 posted...
People only say this when they aren't part of the group being generalized. No one is nodding their head and going along if we used stats to generalize all males as rapists. Statistics aren't dangerous, but how people use them is. There will never be an excuse for lazy generalizations. If it takes more work to make sure individual people aren't caught up in whatever restrictions, than so be it. |
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scar the 1 posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...Holy s***... My apologies... Veterans are people that served yes. Also combat readiness matters because of service. You cant risk the life of a soldier because someone needs a hormones shot
"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president. |
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Isn't that only a 10% difference than a normal non-veteran transgender?
ayy lmao ayy lmao || oaml oaml yya yya
ayy lmao ayy lmao || oaml oaml yya yya |
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hockeybub89 posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted... Rapists areent allowed in the military either. Its not a lazy generalization. Im sorry you rather havee innocent soldiers killed so your feelings arent hurt.
"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president. |
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Tropicalwood posted...
Isn't that only a 10% difference than a normal non-veteran transgender? Yes....which is extremely high.
"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president. |
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Sephiroth1288 posted...
scar the 1 posted...PoopMcgee420 posted...Holy s***... And two big reasons for that seem to be mistreatment within the service. Seems kind of weird to want to punish people for being harassed and sexually abused due to their differences.
(edited 1 day ago)quote
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don't like 30 non-trans vets commit suicide every single day in America?
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scar the 1 posted...
Oh ok, so that's the reason they became vets? I see. And how do those numbers correlate with the bad treatment they're getting? Given that they're treated better today than gays were in the 80's and they still have over twice the suicide rate now as gays did back then, I'd say that has little to do with it.
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248 |
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hockeybub89 posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...scar the 1 posted...PoopMcgee420 posted...Holy s***... Nope. 40% of non-vets have tried to commit suicide.
"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president. |
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WizardPowers posted...
don't like 30 non-trans vets commit suicide every single day in America? Yup and the % of trans-vets is even higher (Actually the number @WizardPowers considers transgender vets too)
"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president. |
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Sephiroth1288 posted...
scar the 1 posted...Oh ok, so that's the reason they became vets? I see. And how do those numbers correlate with the bad treatment they're getting? What about this: Bullet_Wing posted... Probably multiple reasons exist for the increased rates of mental health disorders they observed in transgender veterans. Grotzke said that traumatic brain injuries sustained in combat, military sexual abuse, and stigma related to gender struggles are common in this population.
Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.
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- Boards
- Current Events
- Wow 50% of transgender veterans are hospitalized due to suicidal behavior
- Boards
- Current Events
- Wow 50% of transgender veterans are hospitalized due to suicidal behavior
PoopMcgee420 posted...hockeybub89 posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...
Theres nothing wrong with the ban. Better safe than sorry.
Peoples safety will always out weigh peoples feelings
People only say this when they aren't part of the group being generalized. No one is nodding their head and going along if we used stats to generalize all males as rapists. Statistics aren't dangerous, but how people use them is. There will never be an excuse for lazy generalizations. If it takes more work to make sure individual people aren't caught up in whatever restrictions, than so be it.
Rapists areent allowed in the military either.
Its not a lazy generalization. Im sorry you rather havee innocent soldiers killed so your feelings arent hurt.
I don't want soldiers hurt. I want everyone to be judged as an individual. Many of these service restrictions in the military are lazy generalizations. There soldiers that could be great assets being denied because of various blanket bans.hockeybub89 posted...PoopMcgee420 posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...
Theres nothing wrong with the ban. Better safe than sorry.
Peoples safety will always out weigh peoples feelings
People only say this when they aren't part of the group being generalized. No one is nodding their head and going along if we used stats to generalize all males as rapists. Statistics aren't dangerous, but how people use them is. There will never be an excuse for lazy generalizations. If it takes more work to make sure individual people aren't caught up in whatever restrictions, than so be it.
Rapists areent allowed in the military either.
Its not a lazy generalization. Im sorry you rather havee innocent soldiers killed so your feelings arent hurt.
I don't want soldiers hurt. I want everyone to be judged as an individual. Many of these service restrictions in the military are lazy generalizations. There soldiers that could be great assets being denied because of various blanket bans.
It's not lazy at all. Its protecting people."Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.scar the 1 posted...
Bullet_Wing posted...Probably multiple reasons exist for the increased rates of mental health disorders they observed in transgender veterans. Grotzke said that traumatic brain injuries sustained in combat, military sexual abuse, and stigma related to gender struggles are common in this population.
See the first word... probably that means everything after that is made up by the writer to fit his narrative"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.PoopMcgee420 posted...scar the 1 posted...
Bullet_Wing posted...Probably multiple reasons exist for the increased rates of mental health disorders they observed in transgender veterans. Grotzke said that traumatic brain injuries sustained in combat, military sexual abuse, and stigma related to gender struggles are common in this population.
See the first word... probably that means everything after that is made up by the writer to fit his narrative
Oh I see, you're discrediting your own source. Alright then.Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.scar the 1 posted...PoopMcgee420 posted...
scar the 1 posted...
Bullet_Wing posted...Probably multiple reasons exist for the increased rates of mental health disorders they observed in transgender veterans. Grotzke said that traumatic brain injuries sustained in combat, military sexual abuse, and stigma related to gender struggles are common in this population.
See the first word... probably that means everything after that is made up by the writer to fit his narrative
Oh I see, you're discrediting your own source. Alright then.
No im not. Im discrediting a paragraph that has no scientific data to support it"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.PoopMcgee420 posted...hockeybub89 posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
scar the 1 posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...
Holy s***...
*ignores user*
Dude, I'm not being snide. I literally don't know? I thought veterans were people who served but stopped serving.
Yes, they stopped serving...because of extreme psychological trauma.
And two big reasons for that seem to be mistreatment within the service. Seems kind of weird to want to punish people for being harassed and sexually abused due to their differences.
Nope. 40% of non-vets have tried to commit suicide.
And you don't think these issues exist in the civilian world? Trans people are abnormal and gender dysphoria is a mental problem, but there just isn't proof that trans people are naturally more suicidal.hockeybub89 posted...<
And you don't think these issues exist in the civilian world? Trans people are abnormal and gender dysphoria is a mental problem, but there just isn't proof that trans people are naturally more suicidal.
Theres enough evidence that supports that there is a risk of having transgender people in the military. Whether it's a risk to the transgender soldier or a risk to his platoon... The risk is not worth it at all."Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.PoopMcgee420 posted...hockeybub89 posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...
Theres nothing wrong with the ban. Better safe than sorry.
Peoples safety will always out weigh peoples feelings
People only say this when they aren't part of the group being generalized. No one is nodding their head and going along if we used stats to generalize all males as rapists. Statistics aren't dangerous, but how people use them is. There will never be an excuse for lazy generalizations. If it takes more work to make sure individual people aren't caught up in whatever restrictions, than so be it.
Rapists areent allowed in the military either.
Its not a lazy generalization. Im sorry you rather havee innocent soldiers killed so your feelings arent hurt.
I don't want soldiers hurt. I want everyone to be judged as an individual. Many of these service restrictions in the military are lazy generalizations. There soldiers that could be great assets being denied because of various blanket bans.
It's not lazy at all. Its protecting people.
Judging everyone as an individual would protect even more people since you would wind up with more good soldiers that you previously iignored by lumping them all together.scar the 1 posted...Oh I see, you're discrediting your own source.
It's the only part of the source not backed up by data, sooooThe person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248PoopMcgee420 posted...hockeybub89 posted...
The Admiral posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
The Admiral posted...
Puts the issue to bed for me. Clearly not fit for service, so let's stop kidding ourselves.
There you go not reading as you are known to do. Why don't you cite that Sweden study or conclude black people are naturally less intelligent again?
Sorry if your feelings once again don't align with reality.
How much brain damage do you need to sustain to come to the "Blanket ban a group of people" conclusion from that study? All you have are feelings.
Theres nothing wrong with the ban. Better safe than sorry.
Peoples safety will always out weigh peoples feelings.
Should have been end of discussion here tbhhockeybub89 posted...
Judging everyone as an individual would protect even more people since you would wind up with more good soldiers that you previously iignored by lumping them all together.
Theres a saying...better safe than sorry. Theres no way to weed them out.
Not to mention COMBAT READINESS"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.PoopMcgee420 posted...hockeybub89 posted...
<
And you don't think these issues exist in the civilian world? Trans people are abnormal and gender dysphoria is a mental problem, but there just isn't proof that trans people are naturally more suicidal.
Theres enough evidence that supports that there is a risk of having transgender people in the military. Whether it's a risk to the transgender soldier or a risk to his platoon... The risk is not worth it at all.
So we should ban people because they'll get abused if we allow them? That doesn't seem very sensible and I can't imagine it will help their mental status. Restricting people from society because others will mistreat them sure will help them out.actual top military officials are angry at this upcoming ban. and yet here's a bunch of civilians trying to say they're protecting trans people, even though it's obvious that this isn't the reason why they're being banned. they're being banned because of a statistically insignificant cost. that, and the whole "trump and evangelicals, evangelicals literally have a guide to how they're going to remove trans people from public entirely and this was the second step" thing.
tl;dr are you a top military official? if not, I think your opinion on the matter is moot.Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020
IGN: VanessaSephiroth1288 posted...scar the 1 posted...
Oh I see, you're discrediting your own source.
It's the only part of the source not backed up by data, soooo
Don't you think determining the causes will be important? Fair enough that the causes are currently speculation, but we can't make conclusions about how crazy and dangerous trans people are if that is the case. If combat injury and problems within military culture are indeed significant factors, then that would throw a wrench in the entire narrative. We have the statistics, but we need the why as well. You can't just go "Trans people are X statistic. Ban them." Why is that statistic what it is? That's crucial.hockeybub89 posted...PoopMcgee420 posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
<
And you don't think these issues exist in the civilian world? Trans people are abnormal and gender dysphoria is a mental problem, but there just isn't proof that trans people are naturally more suicidal.
Theres enough evidence that supports that there is a risk of having transgender people in the military. Whether it's a risk to the transgender soldier or a risk to his platoon... The risk is not worth it at all.
So we should ban people because they'll get abused if we allow them? That doesn't seem very sensible and I can't imagine it will help their mental status. Restricting people from society because others will mistreat them sure will help them out.
"I know trans people aren't going to abuse bathrooms but a grown cis man might so let's ban trans people."
it's the same deal. punish the people who arent doing the abuse.Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020
IGN: VanessaBoth PTSD and gender dysphoria are major causes of suicidal behavior. It's not surprising that someone suffering from both would attempt suicide.Sick liaisons raise this monumental mark
The sun sets forever over Blackwater Parkhockeybub89 posted...Don't you think determining the causes will be important?
Yes, and the determining cause is clearly that gender dysphoria comes with an element of high suicidality given how there's no other comparable group that ever had a suicide rate as high as them apart from people who have depression.The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248When worrying about the margin of error, there are two factors to consider.
One is the sampling error. That's the idea that the group you are using as a sample may not be indicative of the total population. Even when you randomly select, you run into sampling error.
Second is sample size. The smaller the size, the larger the margin of error.By examining medical records at Salt Lake City VAMC between January 1, 2014, and October 1, 2015, Grotzke and her colleagues found 39 patients
We are living in a world today where lemonade is made from artificial flavors and furniture polish is made from real lemons.hockeybub89 posted...PoopMcgee420 posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
<
And you don't think these issues exist in the civilian world? Trans people are abnormal and gender dysphoria is a mental problem, but there just isn't proof that trans people are naturally more suicidal.
Theres enough evidence that supports that there is a risk of having transgender people in the military. Whether it's a risk to the transgender soldier or a risk to his platoon... The risk is not worth it at all.
So we should ban people because they'll get abused if we allow them? That doesn't seem very sensible and I can't imagine it will help their mental status. Restricting people from society because others will mistreat them sure will help them out.
No we should ban them because theyre not mentally fit. Sorry your emotions and assumptions dont out weigh safety and facts"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.gunplagirl posted...hockeybub89 posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
<
And you don't think these issues exist in the civilian world? Trans people are abnormal and gender dysphoria is a mental problem, but there just isn't proof that trans people are naturally more suicidal.
Theres enough evidence that supports that there is a risk of having transgender people in the military. Whether it's a risk to the transgender soldier or a risk to his platoon... The risk is not worth it at all.
So we should ban people because they'll get abused if we allow them? That doesn't seem very sensible and I can't imagine it will help their mental status. Restricting people from society because others will mistreat them sure will help them out.
"I know trans people aren't going to abuse bathrooms but a grown cis man might so let's ban trans people."
it's the same deal. punish the people who arent doing the abuse.
Thats not even close to being comparable lmfao"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.gunplagirl posted...actual top military officials are angry at this upcoming ban. and yet here's a bunch of civilians trying to say they're protecting trans people, even though it's obvious that this isn't the reason why they're being banned. they're being banned because of a statistically insignificant cost. that, and the whole "trump and evangelicals, evangelicals literally have a guide to how they're going to remove trans people from public entirely and this was the second step" thing.
tl;dr are you a top military official? if not, I think your opinion on the matter is moot.
Where is your source lmfao"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.Sephiroth1288 posted...hockeybub89 posted...
Don't you think determining the causes will be important?
Yes, and the determining cause is clearly that gender dysphoria comes with an element of high suicidality given how there's no other comparable group that ever had a suicide rate as high as them apart from people who have depression.
or you can ask a transgender person and they can tell you it's because people treat us like crap and try to remove us from public facilities, as well as other forms of discrimination legally allowed in most of the world.Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020
IGN: Vanessagunplagirl posted...Sephiroth1288 posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
Don't you think determining the causes will be important?
Yes, and the determining cause is clearly that gender dysphoria comes with an element of high suicidality given how there's no other comparable group that ever had a suicide rate as high as them apart from people who have depression.
or you can ask a transgender person and they can tell you it's because people treat us like crap and try to remove us from public facilities, as well as other forms of discrimination legally allowed in most of the world.
Then how comes blacks and gays never had this high of a suicide rate?
And if being treated badly makes someone suicidal than they definitely shouldnt go to you know. WAR
Not to mention combat readiness..."Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.PoopMcgee420 posted...gunplagirl posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
And you don't think these issues exist in the civilian world? Trans people are abnormal and gender dysphoria is a mental problem, but there just isn't proof that trans people are naturally more suicidal.
Theres enough evidence that supports that there is a risk of having transgender people in the military. Whether it's a risk to the transgender soldier or a risk to his platoon... The risk is not worth it at all.
So we should ban people because they'll get abused if we allow them? That doesn't seem very sensible and I can't imagine it will help their mental status. Restricting people from society because others will mistreat them sure will help them out.
"I know trans people aren't going to abuse bathrooms but a grown cis man might so let's ban trans people."
it's the same deal. punish the people who arent doing the abuse.
Thats not even close to being comparable lmfao
They're removing trans people from the general public (bathroom, military enlistment) and the reasons cited are safety. with bathrooms, it's because cis people might try and creep on people. and with the military, it's because trans soldiers will be harassed.
it's banning the wrong people. ban the people who would abuse others or harass others. it's like how to prevent sexual assault, people put the onus entirely on women instead of putting it on the people most likely to sexually assault somebody (men). but wait, if we do that then you'll cry that people who are innocent are being targeted like they've done something wrong and the irony is lost on you on every step.Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020
IGN: VanessaPoopMcgee420 posted...gunplagirl posted...
actual top military officials are angry at this upcoming ban. and yet here's a bunch of civilians trying to say they're protecting trans people, even though it's obvious that this isn't the reason why they're being banned. they're being banned because of a statistically insignificant cost. that, and the whole "trump and evangelicals, evangelicals literally have a guide to how they're going to remove trans people from public entirely and this was the second step" thing.
tl;dr are you a top military official? if not, I think your opinion on the matter is moot.
Where is your source lmfao
you're asking for a source that actual military officials are opposed to the ban?Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020
IGN: VanessaSephiroth1288 posted...hockeybub89 posted...
Don't you think determining the causes will be important?
Yes, and the determining cause is clearly that gender dysphoria comes with an element of high suicidality given how there's no other comparable group that ever had a suicide rate as high as them apart from people who have depression.
The cause of high rates of suicidality and mental illness among trans people are high rates of suicidality and mental illness?
The study doesn't make a conclusion about the cause, but theorizes that this factors in this increased rate of poor mental health include combat trauma, sexual abuse, and general mistreatment.(edited 1 day ago)quotePoopMcgee420 posted...gunplagirl posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
Don't you think determining the causes will be important?
Yes, and the determining cause is clearly that gender dysphoria comes with an element of high suicidality given how there's no other comparable group that ever had a suicide rate as high as them apart from people who have depression.
or you can ask a transgender person and they can tell you it's because people treat us like crap and try to remove us from public facilities, as well as other forms of discrimination legally allowed in most of the world.
Then how comes blacks and gays never had this high of a suicide rate?
And if being treated badly makes someone suicidal than they definitely shouldnt go to you know. WAR
Not to mention combat readiness...
black people were also being experimented on by the government and murdered, and nobody was tracking the numbers for suicides. like, say, no CDC investigation.
and it's not just being treated badly. imagine if you couldn't even use the bathroom without risking either prison or being beat up, or both.
punish the people in the military who would harass other soldiers. don't punish the victims of that harassment.Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020
IGN: Vanessagunplagirl posted...PoopMcgee420 posted...
gunplagirl posted...
actual top military officials are angry at this upcoming ban. and yet here's a bunch of civilians trying to say they're protecting trans people, even though it's obvious that this isn't the reason why they're being banned. they're being banned because of a statistically insignificant cost. that, and the whole "trump and evangelicals, evangelicals literally have a guide to how they're going to remove trans people from public entirely and this was the second step" thing.
tl;dr are you a top military official? if not, I think your opinion on the matter is moot.
Where is your source lmfao
you're asking for a source that actual military officials are opposed to the ban?
Yup show me top officials are against it.....and ill show you top officials who are for it"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.isnt this all justification after the fact since it was originally about budget? i feel like the supporters keep coming up with different reasons, while trump listed one reason and the generals themselves dgafgunplagirl posted...
They're removing trans people from the general public (bathroom, military enlistment) and the reasons cited are safety. with bathrooms, it's because cis people might try and creep on people. and with the military, it's because trans soldiers will be harassed.
it's banning the wrong people. ban the people who would abuse others or harass others. it's like how to prevent sexual assault, people put the onus entirely on women instead of putting it on the people most likely to sexually assault somebody (men). but wait, if we do that then you'll cry that people who are innocent are being targeted like they've done something wrong and the irony is lost on you on every step.
Combat readiness.....
Also how you weed out the 50% of transgenders who sre suicidal"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.FrenchCrunch posted...isnt this all justification after the fact since it was originally about budget? i feel like the supporters keep coming up with different reasons, while trump listed one reason and the generals themselves dgaf
Theres multiple reasons and trump listed multiple reasons."Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.gunplagirl posted...
black people were also being experimented on by the government and murdered, and nobody was tracking the numbers for suicides. like, say, no CDC investigation.
and it's not just being treated badly. imagine if you couldn't even use the bathroom without risking either prison or being beat up, or both.
punish the people in the military who would harass other soldiers. don't punish the victims of that harassment.
So you have nothing to back up your bullshit claim?
Again if bootcamp is too stressful for someone.....war is worse.
Combat readiness"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.FrenchCrunch posted...isnt this all justification after the fact since it was originally about budget? i feel like the supporters keep coming up with different reasons, while trump listed one reason and the generals themselves dgaf
it's the same way the trump travel bans early on were dismissed because Trump literally had been saying he would do it because of an unconstitutional reason. yet everyone supporting him was like "it's because it's just for safety". while ignoring the numbers showing the ones that weren't affected are the more dangerous ones.Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020
IGN: VanessaFrenchCrunch posted...isnt this all justification after the fact since it was originally about budget?
It's also about budget, but the wellbeing of soldiers is also obviously a major factor.The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248PoopMcgee420 posted...gunplagirl posted...
They're removing trans people from the general public (bathroom, military enlistment) and the reasons cited are safety. with bathrooms, it's because cis people might try and creep on people. and with the military, it's because trans soldiers will be harassed.
it's banning the wrong people. ban the people who would abuse others or harass others. it's like how to prevent sexual assault, people put the onus entirely on women instead of putting it on the people most likely to sexually assault somebody (men). but wait, if we do that then you'll cry that people who are innocent are being targeted like they've done something wrong and the irony is lost on you on every step.
Combat readiness.....
Also how you weed out the 50% of transgenders who sre suicidal
it's 40% who have attempted suicide, and get this. you can attempt and then not actually be suicidal afterwards.Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020
IGN: Vanessagunplagirl posted...PoopMcgee420 posted...
gunplagirl posted...
They're removing trans people from the general public (bathroom, military enlistment) and the reasons cited are safety. with bathrooms, it's because cis people might try and creep on people. and with the military, it's because trans soldiers will be harassed.
it's banning the wrong people. ban the people who would abuse others or harass others. it's like how to prevent sexual assault, people put the onus entirely on women instead of putting it on the people most likely to sexually assault somebody (men). but wait, if we do that then you'll cry that people who are innocent are being targeted like they've done something wrong and the irony is lost on you on every step.
Combat readiness.....
Also how you weed out the 50% of transgenders who sre suicidal
it's 40% who have attempted suicide, and get this. you can attempt and then not actually be suicidal afterwards.
Its 50% of transgender veterans
Yes because you cant be suicidal after you kill yourself
Oh and COMBAT READINESS"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.(edited 1 day ago)quoteI, too, can CAPITALIZE random TERMS AS though it means ANYTHING SIGnifiCANT.Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020
IGN: Vanessagunplagirl posted...I, too, can CAPITALIZE random TERMS AS though it means ANYTHING SIGnifiCANT.
Idk being prepared to go to combat seems important for you know a soldier. But cosmetic surgery and hormone shots are also important for soldiers.
Dude face it, your emotions on this subject cloud your ability to accept facts."Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.Well yeah having one mental illness makes you much more prone to othersSome say that his voice can only be heard by cats, and that he has two sets of knees... all we know is, he's called the Stig.I also capitalized it @gunplagirl cause you never address it."Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.Sephiroth1288 posted...scar the 1 posted...
Oh I see, you're discrediting your own source.
It's the only part of the source not backed up by data, soooo
No one here is disputing it with data either, and I'll take the opinion over someone who's done research on the topic over random CEmen any day. Do I take his discussion for fact? No. Does it weigh heavier than the constructions people here make up? Hell yesEverything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.scar the 1 posted...Sephiroth1288 posted...
scar the 1 posted...
Oh I see, you're discrediting your own source.
It's the only part of the source not backed up by data, soooo
No one here is disputing it with data either, and I'll take the opinion over someone who's done research on the topic over random CEmen any day. Do I take his discussion for fact? No. Does it weigh heavier than the constructions people here make up? Hell yes
Lmfao so basically you're just picking what to believe in with no evidence.
Ladies and germs your typical CEman"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.scar the 1 posted...No one here is disputing it with data either
Yes I have. Multiple times. No other disenfranchised group in history had a suicide rate as high as transgenders do today. The only group with a similar suicide rate is people with depression, who are also banned from military service.
Any other questions?The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248Sephiroth1288 posted...Yes I have. Multiple times. No other disenfranchised group in history had a suicide rate as high as transgenders do today. The only group with a similar suicide rate is people with depression, who are also banned from military service.
Did you correlate those numbers with how they're treated, or did you just handwave it away with saying that gays were treated worse?Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.scar the 1 posted...Sephiroth1288 posted...
Yes I have. Multiple times. No other disenfranchised group in history had a suicide rate as high as transgenders do today. The only group with a similar suicide rate is people with depression, who are also banned from military service.
Did you correlate those numbers with how they're treated, or did you just handwave it away with saying that gays were treated worse?
You have no source for your shit Lmfao"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.scar the 1 posted...Did you correlate those numbers with how they're treated, or did you just handwave it away with saying that gays were treated worse?
I think you'd be hard-pressed to explain how transgenders today are treated worse than gays were in the 80's when they were the victims of a plague that almost exclusively affected them on top of being demonized by their families and society.The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Friend Code: 2723-9696-7248Sephiroth1288 posted...scar the 1 posted...
Did you correlate those numbers with how they're treated, or did you just handwave it away with saying that gays were treated worse?
I think you'd be hard-pressed to explain how transgenders today are treated worse than gays were in the 80's when they were the victims of a plague that almost exclusively affected them on top of being demonized by their families and society.
Seriously gays were tied to trucks and fences in the 80s and the President was literally like...AIDS isnt serious lol"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president."feelings" and "combat readiness" now qualify as disruptive posting in this topic"I can i i everything else," Bob reportedly said. Alice replied: "Balls have zero to me to me to me..." (Facebook AIs talking to each other)ImTheMacheteGuy posted..."feelings" and "combat readiness" now qualify as disruptive posting in this topic
No it doesnt. Nice try tho"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.Sephiroth1288 posted...scar the 1 posted...
Did you correlate those numbers with how they're treated, or did you just handwave it away with saying that gays were treated worse?
I think you'd be hard-pressed to explain how transgenders today are treated worse than gays were in the 80's when they were the victims of a plague that almost exclusively affected them on top of being demonized by their families and society.
I didn't try to make even remotely that case, though. I'm just asking you to decouple depression numbers from numbers of abuse victims etc. You're the one who deflected to gays in the 80s instead of using that data that you love so much.Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.- Boards
- Current Events
- Wow 50% of transgender veterans are hospitalized due to suicidal behavior
- Boards
- Current Events
- Wow 50% of transgender veterans are hospitalized due to suicidal behavior
PoopMcgee420 posted...ImTheMacheteGuy posted...
"feelings" and "combat readiness" now qualify as disruptive posting in this topic
No it doesnt. Nice try tho
anything that gets pointless repeated over and over in a topic is disruptive posting. Both terms have been pointlessly repeated over and over in this topic."I can i i everything else," Bob reportedly said. Alice replied: "Balls have zero to me to me to me..." (Facebook AIs talking to each other)ImTheMacheteGuy posted...PoopMcgee420 posted...
ImTheMacheteGuy posted...
"feelings" and "combat readiness" now qualify as disruptive posting in this topic
No it doesnt. Nice try tho
anything that gets pointless repeated over and over in a topic is disruptive posting. Both terms have been pointlessly repeated over and over in this topic.
Nope.
People arguing against the ban are using their emotions and ignoring the combat readiness problem.
@scar_the_1 you are literally just making up things. Theres no evidence or numbers to back up your claims. Just emotions"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.Sephiroth1288 posted...Not at the levels transgenders have.
Because transgenders are exponentially more shit upon than gays.And I think it's that time. And I think if you just step aside and Mr. Romney can kind of take over.Tansmadness is a mental illness that needs proper treamenteastwoodchairs posted...Sephiroth1288 posted...
Not at the levels transgenders have.
Because transgenders are exponentially more shit upon than gays.
Then how come in the 80s their numbers were never this high?
How come blacks never had such a high suicide rate?
And again if being picked on and bullied causes stress and suicide....wtf do you think war is gonna do?"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.PoopMcgee420 posted...Then how come in the 80s their numbers were never this high?
Because a bunch were closeted and their plight wasn't exposed to academic study.And I think it's that time. And I think if you just step aside and Mr. Romney can kind of take over.PoopMcgee420 posted...How come blacks never had such a high suicide rate?
Some people react internally. Some react outward.And I think it's that time. And I think if you just step aside and Mr. Romney can kind of take over.eastwoodchairs posted...PoopMcgee420 posted...
Then how come in the 80s their numbers were never this high?
Because a bunch were closeted and their plight wasn't exposed to academic study.
Oh so you have no reason just speculation?"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.PoopMcgee420 posted...Oh so you have no reason just speculation?
No, it's fucking practical sense.And I think it's that time. And I think if you just step aside and Mr. Romney can kind of take over.eastwoodchairs posted...PoopMcgee420 posted...
Oh so you have no reason just speculation?
No, it's fucking practical sense.
No its not. Lol its literally just made up shit.
In the80s gays were treated WORSE than transgenders are in 2016"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.PoopMcgee420 posted...eastwoodchairs posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...
Then how come in the 80s their numbers were never this high?
Because a bunch were closeted and their plight wasn't exposed to academic study.
Oh so you have no reason just speculation?
That's another BBT alt, why would you expect more?- The AdmiralThe Admiral posted...PoopMcgee420 posted...
eastwoodchairs posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...
Then how come in the 80s their numbers were never this high?
Because a bunch were closeted and their plight wasn't exposed to academic study.
Oh so you have no reason just speculation?
That's another BBT alt, why would you expect more?
Ahh didnt know thanks for that"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.PoopMcgee420 posted...eastwoodchairs posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...
Oh so you have no reason just speculation?
No, it's fucking practical sense.
No its not. Lol its literally just made up shit.
In the80s gays were treated WORSE than transgenders are in 2016
Yeah, I guess the fact that there's already nearly 20 trans women murdered this year alone that we know of has nothing on the gay murder victims of the 80s.
I'm excluding aids deaths as that's not murder in a direct sense. Though, Ronald Reagan and his wife are monsters because they left them for dead.Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020
IGN: Vanessagunplagirl posted...PoopMcgee420 posted...
eastwoodchairs posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...
Oh so you have no reason just speculation?
No, it's fucking practical sense.
No its not. Lol its literally just made up shit.
In the80s gays were treated WORSE than transgenders are in 2016
Yeah, I guess the fact that there's already nearly 20 trans women murdered this year alone that we know of has nothing on the gay murder victims of the 80s.
I'm excluding aids deaths as that's not murder in a direct sense. Though, Ronald Reagan and his wife are monsters because they left them for dead.
Okay cool...need a source buddy pal
Combat readiness"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.(edited 21 hours ago)quotegunplagirl posted...
Yeah, I guess the fact that there's already nearly 20 trans women murdered this year alone that we know of has nothing on the gay murder victims of the 80s.
.
Lmfao @gunplagirl
http://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2017"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.PoopMcgee420 posted...gunplagirl posted...
Yeah, I guess the fact that there's already nearly 20 trans women murdered this year alone that we know of has nothing on the gay murder victims of the 80s.
.
Lmfao @gunplagirl
http://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2017
16 is awfully close to 20, and that's just based off the ones we know of that have been reported on. More than a few have already had their bodies claimed by families quietly, as happens every year.Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020
IGN: VanessaPoopMcgee420 posted...gunplagirl posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...
eastwoodchairs posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...
Oh so you have no reason just speculation?
No, it's fucking practical sense.
No its not. Lol its literally just made up shit.
In the80s gays were treated WORSE than transgenders are in 2016
Yeah, I guess the fact that there's already nearly 20 trans women murdered this year alone that we know of has nothing on the gay murder victims of the 80s.
I'm excluding aids deaths as that's not murder in a direct sense. Though, Ronald Reagan and his wife are monsters because they left them for dead.
Okay cool...need a source buddy pal
Combat readiness
Go ahead, prove me wrong that gays were murdered en masse every year of the 80s
And several former special ops and marine trans women are or just ran for political offices. Being trans doesn't impact your ability to aim a gun or follow orders.Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020
IGN: VanessaPoopMcgee420 posted...No its not. Lol its literally just made up shit.
In the80s gays were treated WORSE than transgenders are in 2016
Yeah, because there were more gays out of the closet than potential transgenders.And I think it's that time. And I think if you just step aside and Mr. Romney can kind of take over.It's pretty cute to watch a bunch of people who have never served talk about what can be considered or is relevant to the status of those who are serving, or have served. Not only do most of you not even understand what it means to serve, some don't even know what a veteran is.
I implore you all to either educate yourselves on the topic at hand before spouting this drivel, or defer to people who know what the fuck they're talking about.Jet_Enduro101 posted...It's pretty cute to watch a bunch of people who have never served talk about what can be considered or is relevant to the status of those who are serving, or have served. Not only do most of you not even understand what it means to serve, some don't even know what a veteran is.
I implore you all to either educate yourselves on the topic at hand before spouting this drivel, or defer to people who know what the fuck they're talking about.
Pretty much.Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020
IGN: VanessaJet_Enduro101 posted...It's pretty cute to watch a bunch of people who have never served talk about what can be considered or is relevant to the status of those who are serving, or have served. Not only do most of you not even understand what it means to serve, some don't even know what a veteran is.
I implore you all to either educate yourselves on the topic at hand before spouting this drivel, or defer to people who know what the fuck they're talking about.
Agreed. 1000%"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.gunplagirl posted...
Go ahead, prove me wrong that gays were murdered en masse every year of the 80s
And several former special ops and marine trans women are or just ran for political offices. Being trans doesn't impact your ability to aim a gun or follow orders.
Omfg you dont know what combat readiness is....omfg
Which makes this.....
gunplagirl posted...Jet_Enduro101 posted...
It's pretty cute to watch a bunch of people who have never served talk about what can be considered or is relevant to the status of those who are serving, or have served. Not only do most of you not even understand what it means to serve, some don't even know what a veteran is.
I implore you all to either educate yourselves on the topic at hand before spouting this drivel, or defer to people who know what the fuck they're talking about.
Pretty much.
Fucking gold."Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.eastwoodchairs posted...PoopMcgee420 posted...
No its not. Lol its literally just made up shit.
In the80s gays were treated WORSE than transgenders are in 2016
Yeah, because there were more gays out of the closet than potential transgenders.
And the % should represent that"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.PoopMcgee420 posted...And the % should represent that
Except that it doesn't. Because the %s don't control for closeted, social climate, etc.And I think it's that time. And I think if you just step aside and Mr. Romney can kind of take over.eastwoodchairs posted...PoopMcgee420 posted...
And the % should represent that
Except that it doesn't. Because the %s don't control for closeted, social climate, etc.
Oh ok.....soooo basically ur making shit up"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.Unfortunately, it may be the case that until transgender people gain more understanding and acceptance in the nation in general, along with better and more easily available transitioning options (which may, in and of itself, help with regard to the former), military service might be out of the question.PSN: kazukifafnerDragonblade01 posted...Unfortunately, it may be the case that until transgender people gain more understanding and acceptance in the nation in general,
Gays and blacks never had a suicide problem like this"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.PoopMcgee420 posted...Dragonblade01 posted...
Unfortunately, it may be the case that until transgender people gain more understanding and acceptance in the nation in general,
Gays and blacks never had a suicide problem like this
Gays and blacks were at least allowed their identity.PSN: kazukifafnerDragonblade01 posted...PoopMcgee420 posted...
Dragonblade01 posted...
Unfortunately, it may be the case that until transgender people gain more understanding and acceptance in the nation in general,
Gays and blacks never had a suicide problem like this
Gays and blacks were at least allowed their identity.
Im sorry im not buying it. And lets just say for the sake of argument you are correct...if boot camp is too stressful one would think war would be too"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.PoopMcgee420 posted...Dragonblade01 posted...
PoopMcgee420 posted...
Dragonblade01 posted...
Unfortunately, it may be the case that until transgender people gain more understanding and acceptance in the nation in general,
Gays and blacks never had a suicide problem like this
Gays and blacks were at least allowed their identity.
Im sorry im not buying it. And lets just say for the sake of argument you are correct...if boot camp is too stressful one would think war would be too
If you can't handle boot camp, then you shouldn't be allowed into military service proper, regardless of demographics.PSN: kazukifafnerDragonblade01 posted...
If you can't handle boot camp, then you shouldn't be allowed into military service proper, regardless of demographics.
Agreed.
The whole subject is tough.
On one side yeah man you wanna fight for America sure go ahead....But then you factor in safety and cost and idk...im glad the toughest decision i have to make everyday is how im getting to work .... Truck, Stang, or Motorcycle"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.Dragonblade01 posted...If you can't handle boot camp, then you shouldn't be allowed into military service proper, regardless of demographics.
They made it through boot camp, and then they continued to feel like outsiders.And I think it's that time. And I think if you just step aside and Mr. Romney can kind of take over.eastwoodchairs posted...Dragonblade01 posted...
If you can't handle boot camp, then you shouldn't be allowed into military service proper, regardless of demographics.
They made it through boot camp, and then they continued to feel like outsiders.
Then clearly the issue was not their capability, at least insofar as boot camp is concerned.PSN: kazukifafnereastwoodchairs posted...Dragonblade01 posted...
If you can't handle boot camp, then you shouldn't be allowed into military service proper, regardless of demographics.
They made it through boot camp, and then they continued to feel like outsiders.
Or they made it and still had their mental illness that wasnt under control"Larry Brown has never won a championship." - bond21
Trump is my president.PoopMcgee420 posted...eastwoodchairs posted...
Dragonblade01 posted...
If you can't handle boot camp, then you shouldn't be allowed into military service proper, regardless of demographics.
They made it through boot camp, and then they continued to feel like outsiders.
Or they made it and still had their mental illness that wasnt under control
Is that what the data shows? It isn't? Gosh.Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020
IGN: Vanessa- Boards
- Current Events
- Wow 50% of transgender veterans are hospitalized due to suicidal behavior
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