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- If you don't vaccinate, your child should be barred from public school.
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Aside from cases where the child can't get vaccines, obviously.
It's like how the federal government can't force a state to have a drinking age, but you lose highway funding if you lower it. Make all the stupid decisions you want, but be prepared for consequences. That's how New Mexico does it, and we've got one of the lowest incidence of preventable diseases in America. And hell, we're practically a third world country. |
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I'm legitimately interested in counterarguments.
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Should have your children taken away tbh.
PSN: ReD_ToMaTo
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That's a dangerous game to play. The government should not have the power to bar access to public goods and services as a means of forcing someone to undergo a surgery or operation of any kind.
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Transcendentia posted...
That's a dangerous game to play. The government should not have the power to bar access to public goods and services as a means of forcing someone to undergo a surgery or operation of any kind. Nor should one dumbass be allowed to reintroduce sickness to kids who should be fine.
I-I really needed this~~
Time to stomp some faces!!! |
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LittleRoyal posted...
Transcendentia posted... I'm all for vaccinations, but I'm not going to fear monger the way you are. The vast majority of us will not have contact with those diseases regardless of how many people don't want to vaccinate. That still doesn't justify a government barring access to public goods and services as a means of forcing someone to undergo a surgery or operation of any kind. It's pretty disgusting to fear monger and play with emotions as a means of attempting to justify such fascism. |
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Transcendentia posted...
That's a dangerous game to play. The government should not have the power to bar access to public goods and services as a means of forcing someone to undergo a surgery or operation of any kind. Why not? |
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But vaccinated kids aren't at risk.
Don't tease the octopus, kids!
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Verdekal posted...
But vaccinated kids aren't at risk. But other not vaccinated kids are. |
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JE19426 posted...
Transcendentia posted... Because that exceeds the scope of a government and puts it into the realm of becoming a fascist authoritarian entity of the worst kind - one that has the power and authority to strong arm you into surgeries, operations, or other bodily changes. |
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TheVipaGTS posted...
Verdekal posted... Judging by TC's obvious disregard for non-vaccinated children (going so far as to ban them from public roads and services because of "consequences"), it doesn't seem valid to assume this kind of moral high ground tbqh. |
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Transcendentia posted...
Because that exceeds the scope of a government and puts it into the realm of becoming a fascist authoritarian entity of the worst kind - one that has the power and authority to strong arm you into surgeries, operations, or other bodily changes. It already does have those powers. |
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Transcendentia posted...
LittleRoyal posted... Why not? We already have qualifications to get into schools such as prove residence in the state. Why not "prove you aren't a danger to other kids in at least this one way?" Granted I'm one of those people that thinks pedophiles shouldn't be allowed to teach
I-I really needed this~~
Time to stomp some faces!!! |
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Transcendentia posted...
TheVipaGTS posted... Non-vaccinated people who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons. He also never said to ban non-vaccinated people from highways. Nice lie
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Verdekal posted...
But vaccinated kids aren't at risk. You do know that vaccines don't work sometimes, right?
- literal garbage
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Transcendentia posted...
TheVipaGTS posted... DrizztLink posted... Aside from cases where the child can't get vaccines, obviously. Herd immunity. I'm willing to take it a step further and say parents who refuse to vaccinate should lose their parental rights for child abuse. And you REALLY misread my post. |
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Transcendentia posted...
I'm all for vaccinations, but I'm not going to fear monger the way you are This is not fear mongering. Vaccination rates continue to decline and outbreaks are increasing.
River Song: Well, I was off to this gay gypsy bar mitzvah for the disabled when I thought 'Gosh, the Third Reich's a bit rubbish, I think i'll kill the Fuhrer'
(edited 13 hours ago)
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JE19426 posted...
Transcendentia posted... Oh? LittleRoyal posted... Transcendentia posted... They verify residence to ensure that someone isn't mooching off of the taxpayer dollars in the area. I don't see how verifying residence is in any way comparable to forcing someone to undergo a surgery or a procedure of some kind in order to have access to services and goods funded by their own tax dollars. |
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Transcendentia posted...
Oh? Yep. |
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DrizztLink posted...
I'm willing to take it a step further and say parents who refuse to vaccinate should lose their parental rights for child abuse. Quick question in order for me to decide if your opinion is something I care enough about to continue spending time in this topic: Do you think these parents should lose their parental rights for child abuse?  |
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Isn't this guy madfoot anyways
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JE19426 posted...
Transcendentia posted... So the government can prevent me from accessing a school or a road or a library if I don't allow it to operate on my body or give me whatever vaccinations it wants? Which country do you live in? |
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Why do you keep saying surgery? No surgery.
It's just a small shot.
I-I really needed this~~
Time to stomp some faces!!!
(edited 13 hours ago)
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Transcendentia posted...
DrizztLink posted... Does this endanger the physical well-being of the child or the child's classmates? Because otherwise it's no different than saying Mormons should lose their kids over Baptists. Ideological. |
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Kaname_Madoka posted...
Isn't this guy madfoot anyways Is it? no wonder every post he makes is dumb.. |
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Transcendentia posted...
DrizztLink posted... I... what? This is like saying religion is child abuse
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TheVipaGTS posted...
Kaname_Madoka posted... It's either him or proudclad. I get the names confused
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Transcendentia posted...
DrizztLink posted... Because ambiguous gender is as dangerous as spreading disease that can literally kill you >_> |
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Sir Will posted...
Transcendentia posted... It is fear mongering. Childhood obesity is something that affects exponentially more children AND adults than non-vaccinated children. Yet I don't recall seeing any of you demand that those parents lose their parental rights due to child abuse. At least have some consistency and pretend to approach the child's best interests by going after the bigger fish and low-hanging fruit like obesity. https://www.cfr.org/interactives/GH_Vaccine_Map/#map If you look at the number of preventable outbreaks in America, the number is incredibly tiny considering our population size and considering the issues that are far more horrifying and dangerous. I'm all for educating people on why vaccinations are good, but to give the government that kind of power and authority is simply insane. |
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Transcendentia posted...
So the government can prevent me from accessing a school or a road or a library if I don't allow it to operate on my body or give me whatever vaccinations it wants? That isn't what I claimed. I suspect they would be able to do that in the US though it hasn't been tested. |
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LittleRoyal posted...
Why do you keep saying surgery? No surgery. Surgery, operation, immunization, forced injection of unknown chemical into your body, forced inhaling of unknown chemical into your body, etc. |
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DrizztLink posted...
Transcendentia posted... Can't you just give a simple yes or a no as to whether or not you believe that those parents should lose their parental rights for child abuse? |
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Transcendentia posted...
LittleRoyal posted... Now this is fear mongering, lmfao
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Transcendentia posted...
DrizztLink posted... The answer, if you are keen to even the most basic nuance, was "no".
~Drewnami: The Drew abides.~
Gonads are useful for their purpose, but they are no substitute for brains. -Paul Harvey |
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The23rdMagus posted...
Transcendentia posted... You should probably just let him answer the question that was directed at him. |
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Transcendentia posted...
Sir Will posted... Oh man, it's almost like Michelle Obama tried to do something about that and the right wing s*** their collective pants in rage. And childhood obesity is a completely different subject. I'm capable of caring about more than one issue at a time, this topic involves one of them. And you would be rather less concerned about the percentage if you've seen a kid with pertussis. Watch a baby try to cry when it can barely breath then come at me with that s***. |
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Transcendentia posted...
You should probably just let him answer the question that was directed at him. No. It's an ideology. I believe Mormon children are born into an ideologically toxic environment, but I can't do anything about that. Mormonism isn't a communicable disease. Unless we're talking full-on cult s***, parents can raise kids in whatever ideology they want, assuming it isn't long-term damaged to the psyche. Gender politics are different than "You must please the Master or you will be beaten," to use an extreme example.
(edited 13 hours ago)
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DrizztLink posted...
Transcendentia posted... The point of bringing up child obesity was to point out that the real child and adult killer is not vaccinations or the lack thereof. At least not in America. It's obesity. Yet you never see these kind of strong pronouncements and horses*** moral edicts about how the government should take away the children of obese parents or parents who are letting their kids get obese. You only ever see those types of pronouncements from armchair leftists who have this strange irrational hatred of people who are not vaccinated. It's really weird. Not vaccinating can cause awful things. But that doesn't mean that we ought to give the government the authority and power to forcibly inject whatever chemicals they want into your body under some pretense of helping you. Just like we shouldn't allow the government to force everyone onto government-driven buses whenever we need transportation. Pointing to a child that was maimed in a car crash would be an emotional outburst against the freedom to drive. It wouldn't justify banning driving or mandating that people move around only under the government's watchful eye. |
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DrizztLink posted...
Transcendentia posted... It's not just an ideology. It's indoctrination of the kind that creates deep depression and identity crises later in life, at an overwhelmingly high rate. In fact, at a much higher rate than the risk of a non-vaccinated person ever affecting anyone else. |
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Transcendentia posted...
It is fear mongering No it's not. Transcendentia posted... Childhood obesity is something that affects exponentially more children Also not a communicable disease that can kill you.
River Song: Well, I was off to this gay gypsy bar mitzvah for the disabled when I thought 'Gosh, the Third Reich's a bit rubbish, I think i'll kill the Fuhrer'
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Lol
"Oh, my mother; oh, my friends, ask the angels, will I ever see heaven again?" - Laura Marling
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Oh man, could you imagine what would happen if the government tried to restrict our right to drive?
I bet they would try and have a bunch of rules about it, those fiends.
- literal garbage
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Anyway, I'm going to bed. No longer interested in this topic. All I can say is to be careful what you wish for. Today the government might do what you agree with, but the same machine you create is just as likely to turn on you and your children when you're not paying attention.
A government that does only the bare minimum is much more controllable than an authoritarian regime which dictates every facet of our lives. You'd do well to not slide into an awful case of the latter, because it's hard to crawl out. It's infinitely better to rely on self-policing within communities in order to get more vaccinations in place, especially when we consider that...on the data there's an extremely tiny risk of ever encountering this. In other words, the statistically significant battle is obesity. Vaccinations or a lack thereof aren't even a blip on that radar, and are only a talking point because authoritarians want to have yet another moral highground that they can lord over people who don't give a damn. |
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Why don't we just send them to FEMA camps?
Do unto others what your parents did to you.
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Transcendentia posted...
It is fear mongering. Childhood obesity is something that affects exponentially more children AND adults than non-vaccinated children. Yet I don't recall seeing any of you demand that those parents lose their parental rights due to child abuse. At least have some consistency and pretend to approach the child's best interests by going after the bigger fish and low-hanging fruit like obesity. Schools should be more forceful with getting kids to eat healthy food at school tbh.
Kind Regards,
Darmik |
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Why not just improve your immune system to fight the common cold?
ACNL FC: 1478 - 3108 - 8466
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BountyAssassin posted...
Why not just improve your immune system to fight the common cold? Because that won't fight measles.
~Drewnami: The Drew abides.~
Gonads are useful for their purpose, but they are no substitute for brains. -Paul Harvey |
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Sir Will posted...
Transcendentia posted... Obesity is a disease. And when one person gains weight, their friends tend to gain weight too. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/25/health/25iht-fat.4.6830240.html Not to mention that obesity has a FAR larger negative affect on the medical system and on communities than non-vaccinated people ever will. (At least in America). The direct impact in terms of dollars and resources wasted because of obesity is orders of magnitude more severe than all of the preventable outbreaks in America listed on that graph I shared earlier. |
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Transcendentia posted...
DrizztLink posted... Oh, gee. It causes depression? Maybe because some jackasses are comparing their legitimate gender differences to f***ing polio, and that they arguably are the most discriminated minority in America. Transcendentia posted... The point of bringing up child obesity was to point out that the real child and adult killer is not vaccinations or the lack thereof. Yeah, and leukemia also kills a lot of kids. The weird thing about that is that it's irrelevant to the topic at hand. Car crashes, to use your own comparison, kill a lot of kids. Car crashes aren't very preventable a lot of the time. You know what is? Diseases we can vaccinate, re: THE ENTIRE TOPIC AT HAND. Either get some science to refute vaccines or shut the f*** up about this "But sometimes kids get struck by lightning" horses***.
(edited 13 hours ago)
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I don't think I've ever seen someone worse at arguing than proudclad
Every post is an adventure
- literal garbage
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- Boards
- Current Events
- If you don't vaccinate, your child should be barred from public school.
- Boards
- Current Events
- If you don't vaccinate, your child should be barred from public school.
- Boards
- Current Events
- If you don't vaccinate, your child should be barred from public school.
- Boards
- Current Events
- If you don't vaccinate, your child should be barred from public school.
Darmik posted...
Transcendentia posted...
WaterLink posted...
Also, another counter to your little "obesity is more prevalent than these diseases" is because MOST KIDS ARE VACCINATED. The ones that do get sick because of non-vacs could have easily been prevented
That's impossible to say. We don't have another America where every variable is the same minus the vaccination rates. So how could we know?
What's impossible to say? Were infectious diseases more common before or after widespread vaccinations?
Were accessibility to proper sanitation and nutrition more common before or after? Without having another America that is the same in every regard but the rate of vaccinations, it's a pointless hypothetical.The23rdMagus posted...
Transcendentia posted...
It doesn't have to be conspiratorial. It's the principle of the matter that counts. Personal and parental freedom are more important than the incredibly rare and improbable chance that you'll be affected by someone who was not vaccinated. It's the same principle that governs the freedom to drive even though cars claim far more victims than non-vaccinated people ever will.
Which isn't. It's to protect the people for whom vaccines don't work, or who cannot be immunized.
Don't want to drive safely? You don't get a license. Don't want to make the schools safe for other children? Your kids don't get to go. It's that simple.
Driving kills orders of magnitude more people than non-vaccinated people do. Some would argue driving is not safe. Should we force people to rely on public transportation so that others aren't affected by our inevitable lapses in proper driving?
Should we forcibly seize obese children because they're not making the school and the healthcare system as safe and as robust as can be?
Should we forcibly seize children that were raised into a religion by religious parents? Since their ideas might spread and affect other children.Transcendentia posted...
Were accessibility to proper sanitation and nutrition more common before or after? Without having another America that is the same in every regard but the rate of vaccinations, it's a pointless hypothetical.
So vaccinations aren't important if you have enough nutrition and sanitation?
Also America can dictate that foreigners need to be vaccinated before being allowed to enter the country but they can't dictate vaccination requirements for public schools? Hmm.
Kind Regards,
DarmikTranscendentia posted...
The23rdMagus posted...
Transcendentia posted...
WaterLink posted...
Also, another counter to your little "obesity is more prevalent than these diseases" is because MOST KIDS ARE VACCINATED. The ones that do get sick because of non-vacs could have easily been prevented
That's impossible to say. We don't have another America where every variable is the same minus the vaccination rates. So how could we know?
Here, have a microcosm.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/06/anti-vaccine-groups-step-up-work-as-minnesota-measles-outbreak-rages/
This is not the same thing. This is a case of immigrants not being properly vetted and treated prior to entry. Immigration should carry with it a requirement of being up to date on vaccines, simply because people who were born and raised elsewhere (IE third world countries like Somalia) are far more likely to carry dangerous and virulent strains.
That's not comparable to some random schmuck who doesn't want to vaccinate their kid who was already born and raised here.
Oh? Please share this information you have about improper vetting. If these children were immunized, the chances of there being an outbreak of measles would be close to zero.
This community was being actively discouraged from vaccinating. Observe the results.
~Drewnami: The Drew abides.~
Gonads are useful for their purpose, but they are no substitute for brains. -Paul HarveyTranscendentia posted...
This is not the same thing. This is a case of immigrants not being properly vetted and treated prior to entry. Immigration should carry with it a requirement of being up to date on vaccines, simply because people who were born and raised elsewhere (IE third world countries like Somalia) are far more likely to carry dangerous and virulent strains.
literally from this source
In the past, the Somali community had some of the highest vaccination rates in the state.
Then they stopped because of false information fear mongering. and then, yeah.
No one sings like you anymoreTranscendentia posted...
Darmik posted...
Transcendentia posted...
WaterLink posted...
Also, another counter to your little "obesity is more prevalent than these diseases" is because MOST KIDS ARE VACCINATED. The ones that do get sick because of non-vacs could have easily been prevented
That's impossible to say. We don't have another America where every variable is the same minus the vaccination rates. So how could we know?
What's impossible to say? Were infectious diseases more common before or after widespread vaccinations?
Were accessibility to proper sanitation and nutrition more common before or after? Without having another America that is the same in every regard but the rate of vaccinations, it's a pointless hypothetical.
India introduced widespread vaccines not too long ago and they pretty much irradicated polio in poor, s*** hole areas in that time without making many advances in sanitation.
Posted with GameRaven 3.2.1Transcendentia posted...
Driving kills orders of magnitude more people than non-vaccinated people do. Some would argue driving is not safe. Should we force people to rely on public transportation so that others aren't affected by our inevitable lapses in proper driving?
Should we forcibly seize obese children because they're not making the school and the healthcare system as safe and as robust as can be?
Should we forcibly seize children that were raised into a religion by religious parents? Since their ideas might spread and affect other children.
It's weird how you're using these extreme examples for things that already have measures and controls in place to avoid harmful and deadly situations as best as possible.
But yet vaccinations aren't important and the Government doesn't have to do anything about them?
Kind Regards,
DarmikDarmik posted...
Transcendentia posted...
Were accessibility to proper sanitation and nutrition more common before or after? Without having another America that is the same in every regard but the rate of vaccinations, it's a pointless hypothetical.
So vaccinations aren't important if you have enough nutrition and sanitation?
Also America can dictate that foreigners need to be vaccinated before being allowed to enter the country but they can't dictate vaccination requirements for public schools? Hmm.
Are they as important? Did nutrition and sanitation have anything to do with anything?
And yes, if we are accepting immigrants from third world countries where proper sanitation, nutrition, and living conditions were never the norm we are accepting far more risk of infectious diseases than anything that is homegrown. This is not controversial or a secret. Immigrants need to be vetted more strictly, especially if they tend to live in communes where herd immunity cannot function.
Some random non-vaccinated kid in a suburb won't have an affect, whereas a commune of non-vaccinated people could. But resolving the latter doesn't require a government stripping away parental or individual rights.Transcendentia posted...
Some random non-vaccinated kid in a suburb won't have an affect, whereas a commune of non-vaccinated people could. But resolving the latter doesn't require a government stripping away parental or individual rights.
Since when is it impossible for kids in suburbs to catch an infectious disease?
How about the other way around. Should these suburban kids be forced to get vaccinated before being allowed to travel overseas?
Kind Regards,
Darmik(edited 13 hours ago)Transcendentia posted...
Are they as important? Did nutrition and sanitation have anything to do with anything?
Not with measles or polio, no. Maybe the bubonic plague.
Transcendentia posted...
And yes, if we are accepting immigrants from third world countries where proper sanitation, nutrition, and living conditions were never the norm we are accepting far more risk of infectious diseases than anything that is homegrown. This is not controversial or a secret. Immigrants need to be vetted more strictly, especially if they tend to live in communes where herd immunity cannot function.
Some random non-vaccinated kid in a suburb won't have an affect, whereas a commune of non-vaccinated people could. But resolving the latter doesn't require a government stripping away parental or individual rights.
I invite you to read the article again.
~Drewnami: The Drew abides.~
Gonads are useful for their purpose, but they are no substitute for brains. -Paul HarveyThe23rdMagus posted...
Transcendentia posted...
The23rdMagus posted...
Transcendentia posted...
WaterLink posted...
Also, another counter to your little "obesity is more prevalent than these diseases" is because MOST KIDS ARE VACCINATED. The ones that do get sick because of non-vacs could have easily been prevented
That's impossible to say. We don't have another America where every variable is the same minus the vaccination rates. So how could we know?
Here, have a microcosm.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/06/anti-vaccine-groups-step-up-work-as-minnesota-measles-outbreak-rages/
This is not the same thing. This is a case of immigrants not being properly vetted and treated prior to entry. Immigration should carry with it a requirement of being up to date on vaccines, simply because people who were born and raised elsewhere (IE third world countries like Somalia) are far more likely to carry dangerous and virulent strains.
That's not comparable to some random schmuck who doesn't want to vaccinate their kid who was already born and raised here.
Oh? Please share this information you have about improper vetting. If these children were immunized, the chances of there being an outbreak of measles would be close to zero.
This community was being actively discouraged from vaccinating. Observe the results.
That's not the same as random people not vaccinating. This was a commune, where people from another country were brainwashed. Huge difference. We could've just as easily avoided this if we properly vetted immigrants and taken in less people who were from awful parts of the world prior to making sure they were healthy and sound of character. *shrug*Never understood anti-vac logic. Not only has that autism thing been debunked, but for this hypothetical I'll just assume it IS true. So getting vacced gives you a higher chance of autism. So you'll deny the kid the vac so he'll get a higher chance of getting polio instead of autism?
No one sings like you anymoreDarmik posted...
Transcendentia posted...
Some random non-vaccinated kid in a suburb won't have an affect, whereas a commune of non-vaccinated people could. But resolving the latter doesn't require a government stripping away parental or individual rights.
Since when is it impossible for kids in suburbs to catch an infectious disease?
Anything is possible, but is it as likely as kids in a commune of brainwashed immigrants catching an infectious disease?Transcendentia posted...
The23rdMagus posted...
Transcendentia posted...
The23rdMagus posted...
Transcendentia posted...
WaterLink posted...
Also, another counter to your little "obesity is more prevalent than these diseases" is because MOST KIDS ARE VACCINATED. The ones that do get sick because of non-vacs could have easily been prevented
That's impossible to say. We don't have another America where every variable is the same minus the vaccination rates. So how could we know?
Here, have a microcosm.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/06/anti-vaccine-groups-step-up-work-as-minnesota-measles-outbreak-rages/
This is not the same thing. This is a case of immigrants not being properly vetted and treated prior to entry. Immigration should carry with it a requirement of being up to date on vaccines, simply because people who were born and raised elsewhere (IE third world countries like Somalia) are far more likely to carry dangerous and virulent strains.
That's not comparable to some random schmuck who doesn't want to vaccinate their kid who was already born and raised here.
Oh? Please share this information you have about improper vetting. If these children were immunized, the chances of there being an outbreak of measles would be close to zero.
This community was being actively discouraged from vaccinating. Observe the results.
That's not the same as random people not vaccinating. This was a commune, where people from another country were brainwashed. Huge difference. We could've just as easily avoided this if we properly vetted immigrants and taken in less people who were from awful parts of the world prior to making sure they were healthy and sound of character. *shrug*
If you wanted an America where everything was the same, minus vaccination, there you are. They had a high rate of immunization until it was taken away.
~Drewnami: The Drew abides.~
Gonads are useful for their purpose, but they are no substitute for brains. -Paul Harvey(edited 13 hours ago)Darmik posted...
How about the other way around. Should these suburban kids be forced to get vaccinated before being allowed to travel overseas?
Yes, because going abroad isn't something you need to do. And if you're going to do it for pleasure, you need to make sure you don't bring anything back.The23rdMagus posted...
If you wanted an America where everything was the same, minus vaccination, there you are. They had a high rate of immunization until it was taken away.
Why are you still comparing a commune of brainwashed immigrants from Somalia...to random Americans who are non-vaccinated yet an irrelevant anomaly inside of a herd full of herd immunity?Transcendentia posted...
Darmik posted...
How about the other way around. Should these suburban kids be forced to get vaccinated before being allowed to travel overseas?
Yes, because going abroad isn't something you need to do. And if you're going to do it for pleasure, you need to make sure you don't bring anything back.
And if your kids are going to be around other kids in a classroom, you need to make sure they don't spread anything.
~Drewnami: The Drew abides.~
Gonads are useful for their purpose, but they are no substitute for brains. -Paul HarveyTranscendentia posted...
The23rdMagus posted...
If you wanted an America where everything was the same, minus vaccination, there you are. They had a high rate of immunization until it was taken away.
Why are you still comparing a commune of brainwashed immigrants from Somalia...to random Americans who are non-vaccinated yet an irrelevant anomaly inside of a herd full of herd immunity?
Because that is the future if this trend continues.
~Drewnami: The Drew abides.~
Gonads are useful for their purpose, but they are no substitute for brains. -Paul HarveyDrizztLink posted...
It's like how the federal government can't force a state to have a drinking age, but you lose highway funding if you lower it.
Yeah about that, thanks to the 9th Circuit Court, there's a precedent to say the US Government can't do this. Unless the Supreme Court Upholds Trump's ban on giving money to sanctuary cities.
let's lubricate friction material!
~nickels, Cars & TrucksHe's doing his damndest to derail this topic
Transcendentia posted...
Darmik posted...
How about the other way around. Should these suburban kids be forced to get vaccinated before being allowed to travel overseas?
Yes, because going abroad isn't something you need to do. And if you're going to do it for pleasure, you need to make sure you don't bring anything back.
So what you're saying is that it's okay for the Government to step in at times to ensure that its citizens are properly immunized to stop the spread of infectious disease by placing down blocks and requirements before allowing you to do stuff?
Kind Regards,
DarmikDarmik posted...
Transcendentia posted...
Darmik posted...
How about the other way around. Should these suburban kids be forced to get vaccinated before being allowed to travel overseas?
Yes, because going abroad isn't something you need to do. And if you're going to do it for pleasure, you need to make sure you don't bring anything back.
So what you're saying is that it's okay for the Government to step in at times to ensure that its citizens are properly immunized to stop the spread of infectious disease by placing down blocks and requirements before allowing you to do stuff?
Are you saying that you'd agree that a government needs to vet people entering the country, so that they're not bringing in dangerous ideals and diseases?Transcendentia posted...
Are you saying that you'd agree that a government needs to vet people entering the country, so that they're not bringing in dangerous ideals and diseases?
Not sure how they could vet ideals but if they can measure diseases then yeah of course.
Kind Regards,
DarmikDarmik posted...
Transcendentia posted...
Are you saying that you'd agree that a government needs to vet people entering the country, so that they're not bringing in dangerous ideals and diseases?
Not sure how they could vet ideals but if they can measure diseases then yeah of course.
Yep. Prevent against communicable disease, both foreign and domestic.
~Drewnami: The Drew abides.~
Gonads are useful for their purpose, but they are no substitute for brains. -Paul HarveyDarmik posted...
Transcendentia posted...
Are you saying that you'd agree that a government needs to vet people entering the country, so that they're not bringing in dangerous ideals and diseases?
Not sure how they could vet ideals but if they can measure diseases then yeah of course.
Great! Then we're in agreement that one of the legitimate scopes and purposes of a government is to vet immigrants for the purpose of national security.
Can you explain how some random suburban kid matters in this equation? Note the incredibly small number of preventable outbreaks in America, and how there are actually far more damning preventable things like car accidents and obesity. Things which you probably wouldn't want the government to control more than it already does, right?
Or do you think that the government should seize obese children and strip the parents of their parental rights for child abuse? Should the government ban driving and force everyone to use public transportation so that our driving habits don't affect and endanger others on the road? Should the government seize children who were indoctrinated into potentially harmful religions or ideologies?The23rdMagus posted...
Darmik posted...
Transcendentia posted...
Are you saying that you'd agree that a government needs to vet people entering the country, so that they're not bringing in dangerous ideals and diseases?
Not sure how they could vet ideals but if they can measure diseases then yeah of course.
Yep. Prevent against communicable disease, both foreign and domestic.
So you'd be okay with giving the government the power to come up to you, at any time and for any reason, and to inject you with whatever they want? All because "this is good for you, just trust us" and that alone?Transcendentia posted...
The23rdMagus posted...
Darmik posted...
Transcendentia posted...
Are you saying that you'd agree that a government needs to vet people entering the country, so that they're not bringing in dangerous ideals and diseases?
Not sure how they could vet ideals but if they can measure diseases then yeah of course.
Yep. Prevent against communicable disease, both foreign and domestic.
So you'd be okay with giving the government the power to come up to you, at any time and for any reason, and to inject you with whatever they want? All because "this is good for you, just trust us" and that alone?
Because that can completely happen out of the blue without discussion and debate by our elected representatives, and without any accompanying information being given to the citizenry.
What country do you live in?
~Drewnami: The Drew abides.~
Gonads are useful for their purpose, but they are no substitute for brains. -Paul HarveyThe23rdMagus posted...
Transcendentia posted...
The23rdMagus posted...
Darmik posted...
Transcendentia posted...
Are you saying that you'd agree that a government needs to vet people entering the country, so that they're not bringing in dangerous ideals and diseases?
Not sure how they could vet ideals but if they can measure diseases then yeah of course.
Yep. Prevent against communicable disease, both foreign and domestic.
So you'd be okay with giving the government the power to come up to you, at any time and for any reason, and to inject you with whatever they want? All because "this is good for you, just trust us" and that alone?
Because that can completely happen out of the blue without discussion and debate by our elected representatives, and without any accompanying information being given to the citizenry.
What country do you live in?
Wait a second, so now you're interested in discussion and debate? Seemed like it was either "agree with TC or f*** off" not yet an hour ago100% wrong. More diseases come from undocumented immigrants than from these cases.
/topic
Trump 2020Transcendentia posted...
Great! Then we're in agreement that one of the legitimate scopes and purposes of a government is to vet immigrants for the purpose of national security.
Yes. This is why people with criminal records are often banned from travelling to countries.
I know you're trying to make this into a refugee thing but we're not talking about innocents being unfairly grouped in with others because of their background or nationality. We're talking about people refusing to vaccinate children or themselves without a health reason. There's no innocent. guilty or grey area here.
Transcendentia posted...
Can you explain how some random suburban kid matters in this equation? Note the incredibly small number of preventable outbreaks in America, and how there are actually far more damning preventable things like car accidents and obesity. Things which you probably wouldn't want the government to control more than it already does, right?
Because everyone matters in this situation. The more people who are vaccinated the more effective it is.
There are constant measures and reviews to making driving safe and to combat obesity. I live in Australia and both of those are taken very seriously as well. In my short life I've seen preventative and stricter measures put in place to combat car accidents and childhood obesity. I listed one as an example earlier. Vaccinating children is no different in my eyes. Follow the rules like everyone else has to.
Transcendentia posted...
Or do you think that the government should seize obese children and strip the parents of their parental rights for child abuse? Should the government ban driving and force everyone to use public transportation so that our driving habits don't affect and endanger others on the road? Should the government seize children who were indoctrinated into potentially harmful religions or ideologies?
No because those are not the only ways to improve those situations.
I agree with increasing requirements for getting a drivers license if it's lax. I agree with hard measures being taken on drivers who disobey the rules. I agree with schools not selling junk food in the cafeteria and I agree with schools designating a snack break for healthy food only.
These are different situations with their own ways to combat their negative effects. Making vaccinations mandatory for enrolled students is a way to ensure as many people are vaccinated as possible.
Kind Regards,
DarmikbblHere's the biggest reason why your obesity point isn't a good counter-argument.
The problem with unvaccinated kids is that they're unvaccinated and they're at risk of being infected and infecting others. Vaccinating them is a solution to that problem. By blocking public school access you are putting through a measure that the public school is a safe environment for all children enrolled in the school.
Banning obese children from school doesn't solve their obesity. This is why most measures would be put in place within the school environment to try and create a healthy environment for children.
You're trying to shift this off as a "Government will take control of your lives" by using examples that not only would not solve these situations but they don't make sense.
Kind Regards,
DarmikThe23rdMagus posted...
Maybe the bubonic plague.
Fun story, we still get cases of the bubonic plague. Yet no measles.
Crazyman93 posted...
Yeah about that, thanks to the 9th Circuit Court, there's a precedent to say the US Government can't do this. Unless the Supreme Court Upholds Trump's ban on giving money to sanctuary cities.
Huh. I'll need to look into that.
Transcendentia posted...
So you'd be okay with giving the government the power to come up to you, at any time and for any reason, and to inject you with whatever they want? All because "this is good for you, just trust us" and that alone?
I thought you were going to sleep.
And yes, when it comes to infant inoculations that have wiped many diseases.
You ever see what happens to a baby born to a mother who had Scarlet Fever during pregnancy?
Blind, deaf, dumb, profoundly mentally handicapped.
You ever see a baby with Pertussis?
It's like watching a baby try to breath in a burning building.
I have some pretty strong opinions, because I've f***ing seen what ignorance wrought.
And finally:
I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT OBESITY IN THIS f***ING TOPIC.
An earthquake and a tornado can both topple a building, but we're currently talking about earthquakes.
Bringing up tornadoes is pointless, intellectually dishonest, and you know it.
(edited 12 hours ago)What is transcendentia an alt of
walk like thunderReD_ToMaTo posted...
Should have your children taken away tbh.
Three f***ing pages and you people are still arguing with one of the most obvious trolls I've ever seen.
CE at it's finest.
FFRK: BRKB - Eiko - Guardian Mog
FFBE: 885,063,087 - Orlandeau - 931 ATKMorbidFaithless posted...
What is transcendentia an alt of
Proudclad.omega cookie posted...
Three f***ing pages and you people are still arguing with one of the most obvious trolls I've ever seen.
CE at it's finest.
You ever remember talking to those AIM bots? Or asking stupid questions to Siri? Like just to see what they say? This is kind of the same thing. Maybe it's pointless in the scheme of progressing society but trolls on the internet are kind of like a model of AI, they have to adhere to certain things to keep up character, and we're just testing them to see what happens when their points are countered. There are reasons why there are certain trolls that are thought of as good at their craft and certain ones that are bad and just need to be thrown away. But testing needs to be done before we can make conclusions.
No one sings like you anymoreTranscendentia posted...
That's a dangerous game to play. The government should not have the power to bar access to public goods and services as a means of forcing someone to undergo a surgery or operation of any kind.
School is compulsory though. Your kids are forced to attend, unless you specifically have them schooled elsewhere.
It's bad enough that children are all but compelled, under threat of force, to catch headlice.JE19426 posted...
MorbidFaithless posted...
What is transcendentia an alt of
Proudclad.
That explains literally everything, thanks
walk like thunderThis is a tricky issue. The libertarian Non-Aggression Principle fails to provide a complete answer, imo.
On one hand, I can't support mandatory vaccination because it seems like it's barely one step away from the dystopian future depicted in The Giver. While today's vaccinations are totally safe, mandatory vaccination sets a dangerous legal precedent.
On the other hand, failing to vaccinate your child is awfully close to crossing the line of child neglect. Some people would even argue that it does cross that line... and I can definitely see the logic in that.
There's also the risk of exposing others... does that constitute an act of aggression? It's not clear, imo.
I'm in favor of leveraging social pressure against antivax families in order to make them bear the cost of the risk they introduce to society, but the devil is in the details. I don't think that there's an ideologically pure solution to this problem.
BKSheikah owned me so thoroughly in the 2017 guru contest, I'd swear he used the Lens of Truth to pick his bracket. (thengamer.com/guru)(edited 11 hours ago)Transcendentia posted...
I'm all for vaccinations, but I'm not going to fear monger the way you are. The vast majority of us will not have contact with those diseases regardless of how many people don't want to vaccinate.
Tell that to the tons of measles outbreak victims due to communities that refuse to vaccinate their children, putting other children with auto-immune diseases who can't vaccinate at risk.
Anyone who thinks that vaccines are dangerous to their children should watch this video and get educated:
(literally choose a video because people around here hate reading).
(edited 11 hours ago)Krystal109 posted...
Transcendentia posted...
I'm all for vaccinations, but I'm not going to fear monger the way you are. The vast majority of us will not have contact with those diseases regardless of how many people don't want to vaccinate.
Tell that to the tons of measles outbreak victims due to communities that refuse to vaccinate their children, putting other children with auto-immune diseases who can't vaccinate at risk.
Anyone who thinks that vaccines are dangerous to their children should watch this video and get educated:
Vaccines are safe.
But John Oliver isn't the most reliable source he's very one sided and mocks people who disagree with him in anything
And he is in front of s higemine studio who wouldn't want to Challenge him.
I hate the one sided ness of people like him who are taken as a reliable news source.
I-I really needed this~~
Time to stomp some faces!!!LittleRoyal posted...
Vaccines are safe.
But John Oliver isn't the most reliable source he's very one sided and mocks people who disagree with him in anything
His points are correct, even if he's mocking about it. Also, he is good at explaining "complex" things like herd immunity to f***ing morons.(edited 11 hours ago)Krystal109 posted...
LittleRoyal posted...
Vaccines are safe.
But John Oliver isn't the most reliable source he's very one sided and mocks people who disagree with him in anything
His points are correct, even if he's mocking about it. Also, he is good at explaining complex things like herd immunity to f***ing morons.
Sort of but he also blames a lot of his issues on people like trump, but then goes backwards in time. "Trump inciting hate on trans people...back in 2013 this happened"
Don't try to make it look like trump started every other issue you preach about XD (and he preaches to the choir)
In this specific video he insults a doctor because he has a bad hair cut and is fat I guess? Idk the insult what he was trying to make was but that doesn't make him a bad doctor. I've had ugly doctors who I've Trusted.
So yeah I agree with much of what he says in some of his videos but he is too one sided to really be called a fair news source
But "f*** you fish" rant is probably one of my favorite things I've seen this month!
I-I really needed this~~
Time to stomp some faces!!!(edited 10 hours ago)That's incredible that he went this whole topic arguing with literally everyone and didn't remotely rethink his stance
Do you like the way the water tastes?
Like gunfireLittleRoyal posted...
Sort of but he also blames a lot of his issues on people like trump, but then goes backwards in time. "Trump inciting hate on trans people...back in 2013 this happened"
That has nothing to do with this video or this issue tho. A person's view on one thing, like Trump, does not mean all his views are good/bad. The fact that he breaks up his rants with some stupid humor also doesn't make his points any less factual or real. If you're going to ignore a person's whole argument because you don't agree with one thing they say on a completely separate topic, then you probably shouldn't bother with ever having debates.Krystal109 posted...
LittleRoyal posted...
Sort of but he also blames a lot of his issues on people like trump, but then goes backwards in time. "Trump inciting hate on trans people...back in 2013 this happened"
That has nothing to do with this video or this issue tho. A person's view on one thing, like Trump, does not mean all his views are good/bad. The fact that he breaks up his rants with some stupid humor also doesn't make his points any less factual or real. If you're going to ignore a person's whole argument because you don't agree with one thing they say on a completely separate topic, then you probably shouldn't bother with ever having debates.
You just did exactly that. I mentioned multiple times that he is right in this case.
I'm simply saying I don't like how I see him thrown around as a news source by people on campus and sometimes online especially his comments.
He isn't a real news source he is entertainment. Way too bias to actually be an accurate news source though so are most news stations
I-I really needed this~~
Time to stomp some faces!!!(edited 10 hours ago)Hell, I remember bringing this up on Facebook and an older woman brought up remembering being in line with her parents for the polio vaccine and her family hoping to God that they had enough to get to them.
This was some time ago, I forget her exact wording.
(edited 10 hours ago)Never. That basically gives the government free reign to experiment on us and force us to take shots.
http://www.warwithwords.com
Blade Forged in Darkness: An award-winning Fantasy Novel:http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CE0TLLM- Boards
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- If you don't vaccinate, your child should be barred from public school.
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