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Friday, August 4, 2017

Stanford Medicine - Two minds: The cognitive differences between men and women.

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  3. Stanford Medicine - Two minds: The cognitive differences between men and women.
Esrac 2 weeks ago#1
http://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html

An article from Stanford Medicine.

Apparently research over the past 15 years or so has shown, despite accusations of neurosexism and dismissal by sociologists, that there are consistent differences in the way men and women's brains tend to operate. Not just cultural socialization.

Excerpts:

In her preface to the first edition, Halpern wrote: “At the time, it seemed clear to me that any between-sex differences in thinking abilities were due to socialization practices, artifacts and mistakes in the research, and bias and prejudice. ... After reviewing a pile of journal articles that stood several feet high and numerous books and book chapters that dwarfed the stack of journal articles … I changed my mind.”

Why? There was too much data pointing to the biological basis of sex-based cognitive differences to ignore, Halpern says. For one thing, the animal-research findings resonated with sex-based differences ascribed to people. These findings continue to accrue. In a study of 34 rhesus monkeys, for example, males strongly preferred toys with wheels over plush toys, whereas females found plush toys likable. It would be tough to argue that the monkeys’ parents bought them sex-typed toys or that simian society encourages its male offspring to play more with trucks. A much more recent study established that boys and girls 9 to 17 months old — an age when children show few if any signs of recognizing either their own or other children’s sex — nonetheless show marked differences in their preference for stereotypically male versus stereotypically female toys.

Halpern and others have cataloged plenty of human behavioral differences. “These findings have all been replicated,” she says. Women excel in several measures of verbal ability — pretty much all of them, except for verbal analogies. Women’s reading comprehension and writing ability consistently exceed that of men, on average. They outperform men in tests of fine-motor coordination and perceptual speed. They’re more adept at retrieving information from long-term memory.

Men, on average, can more easily juggle items in working memory. They have superior visuospatial skills: They’re better at visualizing what happens when a complicated two- or three-dimensional shape is rotated in space, at correctly determining angles from the horizontal, at tracking moving objects and at aiming projectiles.


and...

Brain-imaging studies indicate that these differences extend well beyond the strictly reproductive domain, Cahill says. Adjusted for total brain size (men’s are bigger), a woman’s hippocampus, critical to learning and memorization, is larger than a man’s and works differently. Conversely, a man’s amygdala, associated with the experiencing of emotions and the recollection of such experiences, is bigger than a woman’s. It, too, works differently, as Cahill’s research has demonstrated.

In 2000, Cahill scanned the brains of men and women viewing either highly aversive films or emotionally neutral ones. The aversive films were expected to trip off strong negative emotions and concomitant imprinting in the amygdala, an almond-shaped structure found in each brain hemisphere. Activity in the amygdala during the viewing experience, as expected, predicted subjects’ later ability to recall the viewed clips. But in women, this relationship was observed only in the left amygdala. In men, it was only in the right amygdala. Cahill and others have since confirmed these results.

Esrac 2 weeks ago#2
Bump.

I thought this was the kind of thing CE likes to jump all over.
Men and women are different. More at 11.
Sig under construction!
Esrac 2 weeks ago#4
GreatEvilEmpire posted...
Men and women are different. More at 11.


Well, yes, but the prevailing opinion seems to be that the differences are from socialization. This article is about the evidence suggesting a lot of the differences are biological.
Talks 2 weeks ago#5
They have superior visuospatial skills: They’re better at visualizing what happens when a complicated two- or three-dimensional shape is rotated in space, at correctly determining angles from the horizontal, at tracking moving objects and at aiming projectiles.


I've seen people banned on neogaf for pointing this out.
E32005 2 weeks ago#6
lilORANG 2 weeks ago#7
Esrac 2 weeks ago#8
Talks posted...
They have superior visuospatial skills: They’re better at visualizing what happens when a complicated two- or three-dimensional shape is rotated in space, at correctly determining angles from the horizontal, at tracking moving objects and at aiming projectiles.


I've seen people banned on neogaf for pointing this out.


That's Neogaf, baby.
Callixtus 2 weeks ago#9
Someone tell the radical feminists
KhanofKhans, KhanJohnson, Saloonist, Basileos
as a woman i am open to the possibility that there might actually be some behavioral differences between the sexes
our bodies are not built the same, it shouldn't seem like a reach that our brains may have some physical differences too

acknowledging the potential of such possibilities at least as theories instead of hand-waving them is how to effectively pursue handling those differences as individuals (ie: learning if i am truly more prone to certain behaviors than most male peers can be beneficial to me, not oppressive)

i can then better determine how i want to apply those behaviors on my terms once i'm alerted to them, that's science
science should never be restrained for the sake of absolute political correctness, because that would mean tossing out a lot of viable study that's provable
le Moo
(edited 2 weeks ago)quote
Men are better at certain things than women and vise-versa. Most men recognize this, but you tell that you crazy Feminists and they'll get all triggered. They can't see the big picture, or in this case, complicated two or three-dimensional shape is rotating in space.
Sig under construction!
(edited 2 weeks ago)quote
Fam_Fam 2 weeks ago#12
so are we saying it is legit that some trans people might actually have brains that are different from their biological sex, and so their feeling of their genitals not matching them as a person make sense?!
Fam_Fam posted...
so are we saying it is legit that some trans people might actually have brains that are different from their biological sex, and so their feeling of their genitals not matching them as a person make sense?!

no. that has nothing to do with this article
P4wn4g3 2 weeks ago#14
Article is clearly biased against genderless and trans people.
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Esrac 2 weeks ago#15
Fam_Fam posted...
so are we saying it is legit that some trans people might actually have brains that are different from their biological sex, and so their feeling of their genitals not matching them as a person make sense?!


I don't think this article touches on that. There's probably something wonky going on in their brains, but when trans people discuss the changes they underwent during hormone therapy, I don't know if it's just a matter of, say, "female brain in a male body".
Panthera 2 weeks ago#16
It's not exactly surprising information but is nice to actually have it more rigorously confirmed. Especially since it probably has a lot of implications for things like treatment of mental health issues - male and female brains having parts that function notable differently could very easily end up requiring different treatments for the same problems.

Fam_Fam posted...
so are we saying it is legit that some trans people might actually have brains that are different from their biological sex, and so their feeling of their genitals not matching them as a person make sense?!


I'm pretty sure this has been proven, yes
We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny
myzz7 2 weeks ago#17
Men and women think different from each other. Such a brave article in today's world.
Esrac 2 weeks ago#18
Panthera posted...
It's not exactly surprising information but is nice to actually have it more rigorously confirmed. Especially since it probably has a lot of implications for things like treatment of mental health issues - male and female brains having parts that function notable differently could very easily end up requiring different treatments for the same problems.

Fam_Fam posted...
so are we saying it is legit that some trans people might actually have brains that are different from their biological sex, and so their feeling of their genitals not matching them as a person make sense?!


I'm pretty sure this has been proven, yes


The article did touch on mental health issues. For example, women are more likely to suffer from depression and men more likely to suffer from schizophrenia. Women more likely to suffer from post traumatic stress disorder and men more likely to have dyslexia or some form of autism.
P4wn4g3 2 weeks ago#19
myzz7 posted...
Men and women think different from each other. Such a brave article in today's world.

How far we've fallen. Christ.
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Pastryarchy 2 weeks ago#20
I think it's better to just recognize trans people as special or unique cases, because objectively they are. They're a minority population and have some differences from the majority of people. IMO, that's not innately a bad thing to recognize while still enabling them to function as the gender they comfortably identify as.

I'm also partial to the theory that trans people can have differences in their brain activity that basically mimic the gender they identify as. My opinion is that "if it quacks like a duck, thinks like a duck, looks like a duck...it might as well be a duck ".



I'm not touching the "genderless" movement, too many elephants in that room. I just acknowledge their freedom to live that way; I don't really have to understand it.
the_rowan 2 weeks ago#21
Fam_Fam posted...
so are we saying it is legit that some trans people might actually have brains that are different from their biological sex, and so their feeling of their genitals not matching them as a person make sense?!


There exists both the framework for this to be possible, i.e. the fact that men and women have differences in their brains, and a few studies showing that transgender individuals have brains significantly more like those of the opposite sex than the norm. (https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/85/5/2034/2660626/Male-to-Female-Transsexuals-Have-Female-Neuron for example). Although I feel like the need to prove the "legitimacy" of transgender individuals is more than a bit strange when you consider how unlikely it is that someone would want to become the opposite sex permanently just to be able to enter the women's bathroom or any of the other incredibly dumb rationales people suggest for it.
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Awesome 2 weeks ago#22
OrtegaTron 2 weeks ago#23
E32005 posted...
Very interesting
The red flag is false hope
iPhone_7 2 weeks ago#24
So are there any feminists triggered yet?
P4wn4g3 2 weeks ago#25
Feminists don't click on academic links.
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CapnMuffin 2 weeks ago#26
https://m.wimp.com/mens-vs-womens-brains/

Good video too.
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EvoTech 2 weeks ago#27
GreatEvilEmpire posted...
Men and women are different. More at 11.


Sexist!!!!!2!!2!!!1111

Lmao, leftists are such shit

This study is so obvious and it's a shame there even needed to be one.
Now Playing: Atelier Sophie / Legend of Zelda - Breath of the Wild / FFXIV: Stormblood
WizardPowers 2 weeks ago#28
common sense to anyone not a snowflake
COVxy 2 weeks ago#29
I love the fact that this topic has this entirely made up fight against "leftists", when in reality the only people claiming otherwise tend to be radical feminists, who happen to be a very small minority of the left. In fact, one of the fundamental arguments for SRS and the support on the left for transgendered individuals revolves around sexually dimorphic brain features.
=E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])]
(edited 2 weeks ago)quote
MutantJohn 2 weeks ago#30
I'm very curious about the subjects they bring in for testing. What sorts of economic backgrounds? What nationalities?
"Oh, my mother; oh, my friends, ask the angels, will I ever see heaven again?" - Laura Marling
Esrac 2 weeks ago#31
COVxy posted...
I love the fact that this topic has this entirely made up fight against "leftists", when in reality the only people claiming otherwise tend to be radical feminists, who happen to be a very small minority of the left. In fact, one of the fundamental arguments for SRS and the support on the left for transgendered individuals revolves around sexually dimorphic brain features.


There's been, like, one post knocking Leftists in this topic.
WaterLink 2 weeks ago#32
COVxy posted...
I love the fact that this topic has this entirely made up fight against "leftists", when in reality the only people claiming otherwise tend to be radical feminists, who happen to be a very small minority of the left. In fact, one of the fundamental arguments for SRS and the support on the left for transgendered individuals revolves around sexually dimorphic brain features.

Is it bad that I thought of something different when I saw you post "SRS" because your username is a statistics concept?
No one sings like you anymore
COVxy 2 weeks ago#33
Esrac posted...
COVxy posted...
I love the fact that this topic has this entirely made up fight against "leftists", when in reality the only people claiming otherwise tend to be radical feminists, who happen to be a very small minority of the left. In fact, one of the fundamental arguments for SRS and the support on the left for transgendered individuals revolves around sexually dimorphic brain features.


There's been, like, one post knocking Leftists in this topic.


I mean, and many referencing feminists, which is a similar notion. Most feminists are just fine accepting differences between the sexes.
=E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])]
Esrac 2 weeks ago#34
MutantJohn posted...
I'm very curious about the subjects they bring in for testing. What sorts of economic backgrounds? What nationalities?


It's an article that mentions a number of studies. Studies that included mice, rhesus monkies, and human children as young as 2 - 3 months old. Also mentions observing how men and women's brains reacted to certain aversive images.
Esrac 2 weeks ago#35
COVxy posted...
Esrac posted...
COVxy posted...
I love the fact that this topic has this entirely made up fight against "leftists", when in reality the only people claiming otherwise tend to be radical feminists, who happen to be a very small minority of the left. In fact, one of the fundamental arguments for SRS and the support on the left for transgendered individuals revolves around sexually dimorphic brain features.


There's been, like, one post knocking Leftists in this topic.


I mean, and many referencing feminists, which is a similar notion. Most feminists are just fine accepting differences between the sexes.


To be fair, when I have seen feminists talking about differences between the sexes, it's usually in the context of how they believe cultural socialization creates those differences in behavior. So, I can understand why there would be posts knocking feminists when the topic is about evidence about biological influence on men and women's behavior.

I don't know. Do we have poll numbers referencing how many feminists accept biological differences in the way men and women's brains work compared to cultural influence?
COVxy 2 weeks ago#36
The notion of purely socially constructed gender differences seems to be an old one with deep roots in radical feminism and its influences on sociology. I think the notion is fading, even amongst scholars in the area. It's probably higher than it should be, but still.
=E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])]
P4wn4g3 2 weeks ago#37
To be fair I was just trying to trigger the feminists that click on this topic but apparently there aren't any.
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COVxy 2 weeks ago#38
P4wn4g3 posted...
To be fair I was just trying to trigger the feminists that click on this topic but apparently there aren't any.


I'm a feminist. As are many within this topic, probably.
=E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])]
Oh look, another example of COVxy downplaying how many people believe the far-left SJW bullshit we see online.
The only disturbing part I can glean from all of this, is monkeys playing with cars. That just can't end well.
COVxy 2 weeks ago#41
Transcendentia posted...
Oh look, another example of COVxy downplaying how many people believe the far-left SJW bullshit we see online.


Yes, extreme positions are usually extreme in proportion too. Pretty reasonable assumption, even without observation. When your baseline position is unreasonable to begin with, you should probably re evaluate the truthiness of it.
=E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])]
marc55 2 weeks ago#42
Panthera posted...
It's not exactly surprising information but is nice to actually have it more rigorously confirmed. Especially since it probably has a lot of implications for things like treatment of mental health issues - male and female brains having parts that function notable differently could very easily end up requiring different treatments for the same problems.

Fam_Fam posted...
so are we saying it is legit that some trans people might actually have brains that are different from their biological sex, and so their feeling of their genitals not matching them as a person make sense?!


I'm pretty sure this has been proven, yes

are you sure ?

last time i read about this it was impossible to tell the difference between a male brain and a trans woman brains
There is no sound, no voice, no cry in all the world that can be heard... until someone listens.
Everything we ready knew
Esrac 2 weeks ago#44
COVxy posted...
P4wn4g3 posted...
To be fair I was just trying to trigger the feminists that click on this topic but apparently there aren't any.


I'm a feminist. As are many within this topic, probably.


I don't know. "Many" may be an exaggeration when there are plenty of "lolfeminists" posts.
#45
(message deleted)
I'm a feminist and this doesn't surprise me at all. Equal rights and opportunities shouldn't be based the average differences between men and women, but that doesn't mean that men and women aren't generally different.
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P4wn4g3 1 week ago#47
shockthemonkey posted...
I'm a feminist and this doesn't surprise me at all. Equal rights and opportunities shouldn't be based the average differences between men and women, but that doesn't mean that men and women aren't generally different.

Equal rights is one thing. Equal opportunities is one of those things that gets construed into repressing the majority to empower minorities.
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Sativa_Rose 1 week ago#48
Esrac posted...
They’re better at visualizing what happens when a complicated two- or three-dimensional shape is rotated in space


Lol this is ironic because those are the kinds of questions on IQ tests that I've always been the worst at.
I may not go down in history, but I will go down on your sister.
hockeybub89 1 week ago#49
apolloooo 1 week ago#50
Esrac posted...
GreatEvilEmpire posted...
Men and women are different. More at 11.


Well, yes, but the prevailing opinion seems to be that the differences are from socialization. This article is about the evidence suggesting a lot of the differences are biological.

Unless you're sjw hippies nobody think like this.
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    Esrac 1 week ago#51
    apolloooo posted...
    Esrac posted...
    GreatEvilEmpire posted...
    Men and women are different. More at 11.


    Well, yes, but the prevailing opinion seems to be that the differences are from socialization. This article is about the evidence suggesting a lot of the differences are biological.

    Unless you're sjw hippies nobody think like this.


    The article suggests most sociologists and social psychologists lean heavily toward socialization.
    MutantJohn 1 week ago#52
    Well, do consider that there are men who make their livings dealing with feelings and vocalization while there are also women engineers.

    The real takeaway should be, due to certain brain structures men and women may have different probabilities of mental illnesses but to generalize about how the majority of the physical differences manifest is where I begin to question things.

    More often than not, we take relatively small sample sizes (even 5,000 samples is small compared to the true metric, the global population) and then extrapolate from there. People don't take this with the grain of salt that they usually should.

    The last line of the article summed it up, the biological effects are greater than 0 and the sociological effects are greater than 0. As of now, it's an indeterminate mixture.
    "Oh, my mother; oh, my friends, ask the angels, will I ever see heaven again?" - Laura Marling
    COVxy 1 week ago#53
    MutantJohn posted...

    More often than not, we take relatively small sample sizes (even 5,000 samples is small compared to the true metric, the global population) and then extrapolate from there. People don't take this with the grain of salt that they usually should.


    I mean, this is the entire point of sampling. Assuming random sampling, which I agree is actually rare (in its true form), then generalizing to the entire population is entirely appropriate.
    =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])]
    MutantJohn 1 week ago#54
    This is why bio isn't a real science.
    "Oh, my mother; oh, my friends, ask the angels, will I ever see heaven again?" - Laura Marling
    COVxy 1 week ago#55
    MutantJohn posted...
    This is why bio isn't a real science.


    Lmao. I don't think you understand much about "science" then.
    =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])]
    Callixtus posted...
    Someone tell the radical feminists

    Radical feminists are about woman being better.
    when you stub your toes it's the SJWs fualt.
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    Remember how mad everyone was at that show?

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    Esrac posted...
    [women] are more adept at retrieving information from long-term memory.

    Oh we know, RIGHT FELLAS HAHA

    I AM ROMANTICALLY EXPERIENCED
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    Esrac 1 week ago#59
    weapon_d00d816 posted...
    Esrac posted...
    [women] are more adept at retrieving information from long-term memory.

    Oh we know, RIGHT FELLAS HAHA

    I AM ROMANTICALLY EXPERIENCED


    I was tempted to make a jokes about that, since a common stereotype is women pulling out some bullshiy during an argument that men have let go years ago.
    scar the 1 1 week ago#60
    COVxy posted...
    The notion of purely socially constructed gender differences seems to be an old one with deep roots in radical feminism and its influences on sociology. I think the notion is fading, even amongst scholars in the area. It's probably higher than it should be, but still.

    Even radical feminists have no issues accepting biological differences between sexes. What they're talking about when they're talking about gender is still social constructs that very well exist on top of biological differences.
    Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.
    #61
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    billcom6 1 week ago#62
    This is based on sex, not gender, as far as I can tell.
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    GiftedACIII 1 week ago#63
    scar the 1 posted...
    COVxy posted...
    The notion of purely socially constructed gender differences seems to be an old one with deep roots in radical feminism and its influences on sociology. I think the notion is fading, even amongst scholars in the area. It's probably higher than it should be, but still.

    Even radical feminists have no issues accepting biological differences between sexes. What they're talking about when they're talking about gender is still social constructs that very well exist on top of biological differences.

    You're talking about gender roles. Those are social constructs that exist on top of biological differences. Gender itself is more biological.
    </topic>
    (edited 1 week ago)quote
    Samurontai 1 week ago#64
    billcom6 posted...
    This is based on sex, not gender, as far as I can tell.

    That is correct
    scar the 1 1 week ago#65
    GiftedACIII posted...
    scar the 1 posted...
    COVxy posted...
    The notion of purely socially constructed gender differences seems to be an old one with deep roots in radical feminism and its influences on sociology. I think the notion is fading, even amongst scholars in the area. It's probably higher than it should be, but still.

    Even radical feminists have no issues accepting biological differences between sexes. What they're talking about when they're talking about gender is still social constructs that very well exist on top of biological differences.

    You're talking about gender roles. Those are social constructs that exist on top of biological differences. Gender itself is more biological.

    What you call gender role, a radfem will call gender. What you say is biological, they will call sex. It's just vocabulary.
    Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.
    GiftedACIII 5 days ago#66
    scar the 1 posted...
    GiftedACIII posted...
    scar the 1 posted...
    COVxy posted...
    The notion of purely socially constructed gender differences seems to be an old one with deep roots in radical feminism and its influences on sociology. I think the notion is fading, even amongst scholars in the area. It's probably higher than it should be, but still.

    Even radical feminists have no issues accepting biological differences between sexes. What they're talking about when they're talking about gender is still social constructs that very well exist on top of biological differences.

    You're talking about gender roles. Those are social constructs that exist on top of biological differences. Gender itself is more biological.

    What you call gender role, a radfem will call gender. What you say is biological, they will call sex. It's just vocabulary.

    And that's why radfems are idiots. Gender roles are gender stereotypes. For there to be roles and stereotypes of something, that something has to exist separate from them.
    </topic>
    scar the 1 5 days ago#67
    GiftedACIII posted...
    And that's why radfems are idiots. Gender roles are gender stereotypes. For there to be roles and stereotypes of something, that something has to exist separate from them.

    They're idiots because you don't understand and/or agree with their vocabulary? Pleasing you sounds fickle.
    Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.
    scar the 1 posted...
    GiftedACIII posted...
    And that's why radfems are idiots. Gender roles are gender stereotypes. For there to be roles and stereotypes of something, that something has to exist separate from them.

    They're idiots because you don't understand and/or agree with their vocabulary? Pleasing you sounds fickle.

    Radical feminists helped popularize the idea that trans people aren't really trans, and trans-exclusion is a huge problem with a lot of feminist groups and ideologues. 

    And yes, when they decide that they're going to use dishonest terms to push a dishonest agenda, they're being stupid as fuck.
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    scar the 1 5 days ago#69
    shockthemonkey posted...
    Radical feminists helped popularize the idea that trans people aren't really trans, and trans-exclusion is a huge problem with a lot of feminist groups and ideologues. 

    And yes, when they decide that they're going to use dishonest terms to push a dishonest agenda, they're being stupid as f***.

    "Not all radfems". Really though, I know there are awful transmisogynist radfems out there, but I've also sen radfems make a very clear distinction between gender as the social constructs created by patriarchy and gender identity being whatever the hell you identify as within that taxonomy.
    Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.
    scar the 1 posted...
    shockthemonkey posted...
    Radical feminists helped popularize the idea that trans people aren't really trans, and trans-exclusion is a huge problem with a lot of feminist groups and ideologues. 

    And yes, when they decide that they're going to use dishonest terms to push a dishonest agenda, they're being stupid as f***.

    "Not all radfems". Really though, I know there are awful transmisogynist radfems out there, but I've also sen radfems make a very clear distinction between gender as the social constructs created by patriarchy and gender identity being whatever the hell you identify as within that taxonomy.

    Oh me too, I didn't mean to say it was a universal trait of theirs.

    But fuck TERFs, cuz they're the worst.
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    Esrac 5 days ago#71
    shockthemonkey posted...
    scar the 1 posted...
    GiftedACIII posted...
    And that's why radfems are idiots. Gender roles are gender stereotypes. For there to be roles and stereotypes of something, that something has to exist separate from them.

    They're idiots because you don't understand and/or agree with their vocabulary? Pleasing you sounds fickle.

    Radical feminists helped popularize the idea that trans people aren't really trans, and trans-exclusion is a huge problem with a lot of feminist groups and ideologues. 

    And yes, when they decide that they're going to use dishonest terms to push a dishonest agenda, they're being stupid as fuck.


    Do you mean not really trans or not really women?
    Esrac posted...
    shockthemonkey posted...
    scar the 1 posted...
    GiftedACIII posted...
    And that's why radfems are idiots. Gender roles are gender stereotypes. For there to be roles and stereotypes of something, that something has to exist separate from them.

    They're idiots because you don't understand and/or agree with their vocabulary? Pleasing you sounds fickle.

    Radical feminists helped popularize the idea that trans people aren't really trans, and trans-exclusion is a huge problem with a lot of feminist groups and ideologues. 

    And yes, when they decide that they're going to use dishonest terms to push a dishonest agenda, they're being stupid as fuck.


    Do you mean not really trans or not really women?

    There are subsets that believe each of those things. One group believes people can't be trans because gender doesn't exist and another believes trans women should be excluded from feminist goals because they were "socialized as men." First group is generally just stupid and idealistic, second group tends to be hateful to go along with their stupidity.
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    But not if it sucks.
    scar the 1 4 days ago#73
    I have no love for TERFs, but I also have no love for trans women throwing around the TERF epithet any time a woman tries to talk about the patriarchy. I'm acquainted with one of the latter and that's quite annoying.
    Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.
    GiftedACIII 2 days ago#74
    scar the 1 posted...
    GiftedACIII posted...
    And that's why radfems are idiots. Gender roles are gender stereotypes. For there to be roles and stereotypes of something, that something has to exist separate from them.

    They're idiots because you don't understand and/or agree with their vocabulary? Pleasing you sounds fickle.

    That's a dumb deflection. Their vocabulary is wrong because it's illogical, which I just explained. Abortion isn't child murder just because it is in a pro-lifer's "vocabulary". Covfefe isn't a word even if Trump's administration wants to pretend it's part of their "vocabulary".
    </topic>
    (edited 2 days ago)quote
    scar the 1 2 days ago#75
    GiftedACIII posted...
    scar the 1 posted...
    GiftedACIII posted...
    And that's why radfems are idiots. Gender roles are gender stereotypes. For there to be roles and stereotypes of something, that something has to exist separate from them.

    They're idiots because you don't understand and/or agree with their vocabulary? Pleasing you sounds fickle.

    That's a dumb deflection. Their vocabulary is wrong because it's illogical, which I just explained. Abortion isn't child murder just because it is in a pro-lifer's "vocabulary". Covfefe isn't a word even if Trump's administration wants to pretend it's part of their "vocabulary".

    No, but the vocabulary of radfems comes from a pretty well explored feminist theory. You might not like or agree with it, but it's not the same as a lobby or a typo. It's a reference frame used by many different actual scholars to refer to the same phenomenon. Surely you can see the distinction from political sensationalism (abortion example) and that.
    Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.
    scar the 1 posted...
    GiftedACIII posted...
    scar the 1 posted...
    GiftedACIII posted...
    And that's why radfems are idiots. Gender roles are gender stereotypes. For there to be roles and stereotypes of something, that something has to exist separate from them.

    They're idiots because you don't understand and/or agree with their vocabulary? Pleasing you sounds fickle.

    That's a dumb deflection. Their vocabulary is wrong because it's illogical, which I just explained. Abortion isn't child murder just because it is in a pro-lifer's "vocabulary". Covfefe isn't a word even if Trump's administration wants to pretend it's part of their "vocabulary".

    No, but the vocabulary of radfems comes from a pretty well explored feminist theory. You might not like or agree with it, but it's not the same as a lobby or a typo. It's a reference frame used by many different actual scholars to refer to the same phenomenon. Surely you can see the distinction from political sensationalism (abortion example) and that.

    The vocabulary of radfems are neither well explored nor up to date. It's why they're called radfems. It is barely any different than the pro-life lobby and political sensationalism. The reference frames were made before the neurological and cognitive differences were common knowledge and is merely a theory with the absence of that knowledge. There are scholars who used to say homosexuality was a mental illness too.
    </topic>
    scar the 1 17 hours ago#77
    That's a bold claim to make about feminist theory. I'm almost willing to bet two cents that you haven't read very much of it in the first place.
    Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.
    The Admiral 17 hours ago#78
    A Liberal's Guide to Whether Gender is Biological or a Social Construct

    > Are we discussing transgenders?
    Gender is biological

    > Are we discussing gender roles?
    Gender is a social construct.

    > Are we discussing a feminist issue?
    Gender is a social construct

    > Are we discussing rape culture?
    Gender is biological

    > Are we discussing the wage gap (myth)?
    Gender is a social construct

    > Are we discussing differences in crime statistics?
    Gender is biological

    > Are we discussing an issue that currently benefits men over women?
    Gender is biological
    - The Admiral
    Esrac 11 hours ago#79
    The Admiral posted...
    A Liberal's Guide to Whether Gender is Biological or a Social Construct

    > Are we discussing transgenders?
    Gender is biological

    > Are we discussing gender roles?
    Gender is a social construct.

    > Are we discussing a feminist issue?
    Gender is a social construct

    > Are we discussing rape culture?
    Gender is biological

    > Are we discussing the wage gap (myth)?
    Gender is a social construct

    > Are we discussing differences in crime statistics?
    Gender is biological

    > Are we discussing an issue that currently benefits men over women?
    Gender is biological


    I've heard a few say Sex is a social construct. As in biological sex. But I doubt many would take them seriously.
    ^

    ...I don't get it.
    Esrac 10 hours ago#81
    Questionmarktarius posted...
    ^

    ...I don't get it.


    I didn't say it was sensible.



    Riley Dennis, who is apparently a very popular trans YouTuber, is trying to argue here that sex and gender are both social constructs.
    Esrac posted...
    Questionmarktarius posted...
    ^

    ...I don't get it.


    I didn't say it was sensible.



    Riley Dennis, who is apparently a very popular trans YouTuber, is trying to argue here that sex and gender are both social constructs.

    I don't get that either, but I was referring Addy's list. You just cut in line.
    Esrac 10 hours ago#83
    Questionmarktarius posted...
    Esrac posted...
    Questionmarktarius posted...
    ^

    ...I don't get it.


    I didn't say it was sensible.



    Riley Dennis, who is apparently a very popular trans YouTuber, is trying to argue here that sex and gender are both social constructs.

    I don't get that either, but I was referring Addy's list. You just cut in line.


    I don't think it counts as cutting in line when my post came more than 10 minutes before yours.
    Esrac posted...
    I don't think it counts as cutting in line when my post came more than 10 minutes before yours.

    I only see a difference of six or seven.
    But, uh, yeah. My bad.
    P4wn4g3 4 hours ago#85
    The Admiral posted...
    A Liberal's Guide to Whether Gender is Biological or a Social Construct

    > Are we discussing transgenders?
    Gender is biological

    > Are we discussing gender roles?
    Gender is a social construct.

    > Are we discussing a feminist issue?
    Gender is a social construct

    > Are we discussing rape culture?
    Gender is biological

    > Are we discussing the wage gap (myth)?
    Gender is a social construct

    > Are we discussing differences in crime statistics?
    Gender is biological

    > Are we discussing an issue that currently benefits men over women?
    Gender is biological

    I'd agree with you, except you're saying liberal here as is your schtick these days. Stay frosty.
    Hive Mind of Dark Aether, the unofficial Metroid Social Private board.
    https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/851-dark-aether
    GiftedACIII 4 hours ago#86
    scar the 1 posted...
    That's a bold claim to make about feminist theory. I'm almost willing to bet two cents that you haven't read very much of it in the first place.

    Where did I say anything about feminist theory? You're the only one who keeps bringing it up. I said the vocabulary of radfems, which by definition are even further removed than regular feminists. And this isn't even about all radfem ideas, just this one aspect. Why are you so indignant at the idea that some ideas of feminism might not be infallible?
    </topic>
    The Admiral 3 hours ago#87
    P4wn4g3 posted...
    I'd agree with you, except you're saying liberal here as is your schtick these days. Stay frosty


    Sounds like you're just frosty that the word liberal was used. It's perfectly accurate in this case. The conservative's guide on this issue just has one response.
    - The Admiral
    P4wn4g3 3 hours ago#88
    Typical admiral.
    Hive Mind of Dark Aether, the unofficial Metroid Social Private board.
    https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/851-dark-aether
    Howl 3 hours ago#89
    I don't understand how feminists can be against such things and simultaneously argue that trans people exist because they have the opposite genders brain.
    Posted with GameRaven 3.2.1
    wait

    so because some monkeys played with toys they concluded human brains have sex differences

    that seems quite odd
    sigless user is me or am I?
    Esrac 3 hours ago#91
    darkphoenix181 posted...
    wait

    so because some monkeys played with toys they concluded human brains have sex differences

    that seems quite odd


    Not really. 

    It's to point out that even toy preferences aren't socially engineered so much as consistently preferred by each sex. And because we see similar choice trends in very young human children we can see there is overlap. They just used a closely related primate cousin in that experiment.

    Also. It's not like that was the only example of evidence they used.
    Howl posted...
    I don't understand how feminists can be against such things and simultaneously argue that trans people exist because they have the opposite genders brain.

    Those people believe gender is completely made up so you can make up and identify whatever gender you want to be. Those people are the ones who believe there are a limitless amount of genders.
    Real subtle
    COVxy 1 hour ago#93
    Howl posted...
    I don't understand how feminists can be against such things and simultaneously argue that trans people exist because they have the opposite genders brain.


    You're mostly just conflating different people and pretending they are the same people to make yourself feel better.
    =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])]
    1. Boards
    2. Current Events 
    3. Stanford Medicine - Two minds: The cognitive differences between men and women.

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