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Saturday, August 26, 2017

Can someone explain why "democrats were confederates" is still a thing

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  3. Can someone explain why "democrats were confederates" is still a thing
Carmelo 4 days ago#1
Just yesterday on Fox an argument to the effect of "DEMOCRATS were the party of slavery! Checkmate liberals!" was made. And I've seen it countless times on twitter 

Basically why the f*** are so many republicans totally ignorant of political realignment? These are supposedly educated (lol) people too who apparently know stuff about history but not that. I literally learned this in high school! Is it the kind of thing where they only taught it in the northern states but not the south? It's such a simplistic and easily refuted argument that I can't believe people are still making it but here we are
untrustful 4 days ago#2
Republicans are under the opinion that the southern strategy never happened. It did, but that has never stopped them from rethinking history. They still consider confederates heroes so...
Gradieus 4 days ago#3
Because there's no such thing as political realignment. 

That's just how democrats try to bury their own heinous past.
#4
(message deleted)
AceRabbit 4 days ago#5
untrustful posted...
Republicans are under the opinion that the southern strategy never happened. It did, but that has never stopped them from rethinking history. They still consider confederates heroes so...


Not even the Southern Strategy. The Republicans made a bargain to end Reconstruction under Hayes and abandoned southern blacks to Jim Crow
Over the mountain.
Then those same people turn around and call Lincoln a tyrant. I love the mental gymnastics lol.
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Gradieus 4 days ago#7
C0c0nuttz posted...
Because people are stupid and didn't pay attention in school.

Case in point: post above me


Seems to me I'm the only one that did pay attention.
untrustful 4 days ago#8
Gradieus posted...
Seems to me I'm the only one that did pay attention.

A lot of things seem to you, doesn't mean they're based in reality.
TundraKing87 4 days ago#9
The Dems were the party of slavery! We are the party of Lincoln! The Southern strategy is a myth!...OMG! Muh confederate statues! Muh heritage!
If your party stance is that government is often evil then you can troll people when their party was evil and then conflate it with modern times for triple troll bonus. 

I can't imagine ever using that argument so its hard to think anyone does it seriously but they probably do.
That just raises further questions
Lord_of_BeefDip 4 days ago#11
Gradieus posted...
Because there's no such thing as political realignment. 

That's just how democrats try to bury their own heinous past.


Except there was. After the civil rights act most of the solid south started voting GOP. In 1968 Wallace won most of them on his pro-segregationist platform, and after that most southern states who preciously voted Democratic felt the party moves to far left (And had allied with blacks.) and started voting Republican by similar margins as they used to vote Dem. It really is no coincidence that states that voted Dem by large margins in 1960 were voting decisively Republican by 1972 on.

At the same time the liberal wing in the GOP was shrinking, with many urban inner city Republicans who were moderate to liberal jumping ship. Black people also used to favor the GOP (Or were at least a large presence. ), yet as its conservative wing grew, with racist southern Dems joining and altering the party strategy, combined with the Civil Rights act, all that together led to an exodus of black and minority voters from the Republican party to the Democratic party.
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There was an article in my paper today about some guy who is flying the confederate flag at his house. He claims that slavery began in the north and abolition began in the south, so yeah, I'm gonna chalk up this line of thinking to begin uneducated (he lives in the first state that banned slavery, and it borders Canada).
Because its the easiest deflection they can muster.
All animals can scream.
It's mostly playing on ignorance.

Yes, the Democrat party was the party of the KKK, but which party now embraces the KKK, the white supremacists?
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(edited 4 days ago)reportquote
Carmelo 4 days ago#15
@Gradieus

explain then:

why are the southern former confederate states primarily red today?

why is it the republican party who wants to defend confederate monuments today?

why is the republican party the party of states rights today?
(edited 4 days ago)reportquote
Kryptik 4 days ago#16
It's the same line of thinking that pushes Robert Byrd, a man who disavowed his racist past and visibly made up for it for decades (to the point of getting honors and eulogies from the NAACP), as more proof of the Dems' enduring racism than Trent Lott, Strom Thurmond, Jeff Sessions, and the sympathetic gestures toward confederate fetishists are to the GOP. Byrd literally gets less credit for his decades-long atonement and penance than Sessions did for a fake NAACP award.
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Gradieus 4 days ago#17
Lord_of_BeefDip posted...
Gradieus posted...
Because there's no such thing as political realignment. 

That's just how democrats try to bury their own heinous past.


Except there was. After the civil rights act most of the solid south started voting GOP. In 1968 Wallace won most of them on his pro-segregationist platform, and after that most southern states who preciously voted Democratic felt the party moves to far left (And had allied with blacks.) and started voting Republican by similar margins as they used to vote Dem. It really is no coincidence that states that voted Dem by large margins in 1960 were voting decisively Republican by 1972 on.

At the same time the liberal wing in the GOP was shrinking, with many urban inner city Republicans who were moderate to liberal jumping ship. Black people also used to favor the GOP (Or were at least a large presence. ), yet as its conservative wing grew, with racist southern Dems joining and altering the party strategy, combined with the Civil Rights act, all that together led to an exodus of black and minority voters from the Republican party to the Democratic party.


Jimmy Carter won the south in 1976 so your proposition of 1968 and 1972 hold no basis. What's more likely is that there hasn't been a good Democratic candidate since Carter that focuses on issues relevant to the South like immigration, pro-life, and gun control.
#18
(message deleted)
Gradieus 4 days ago#19
Carmelo posted...
@Gradieus

explain then:

why are the southern former confederate states primarily red today?

why is it the republican party who wants to defend confederate monuments today?

why is the republican party the party of states rights today?


1. Because no Democratic candidate focuses on immigration, pro-life and 2nd amendment. Carter won the south in 1976 so any notion about 1968 and 1972 flipping things is moot. You just need a better candidate.

2. Because monuments are history and my history is your history. Advocating for the removal of George Washington statues and blowing up My. Rushmore is pathetic and goes against everything Americans stand for. Removing George Washington says a lot more about the Left than the Right.

3. Because the government has gotten out of control. Only big cities succeed from big government. There's no real big cities in much of the South, which are liberal leaning anyway, so they suffer the most.
Carmelo 4 days ago#20
Gradieus posted...
Carmelo posted...
@Gradieus

explain then:

why are the southern former confederate states primarily red today?

why is it the republican party who wants to defend confederate monuments today?

why is the republican party the party of states rights today?


1. Because no Democratic candidate focuses on immigration, pro-life and 2nd amendment. Carter won the south in 1976 so any notion about 1968 and 1972 flipping things is moot. You just need a better candidate.

2. Because monuments are history and my history is your history. Advocating for the removal of George Washington statues and blowing up My. Rushmore is pathetic and goes against everything Americans stand for. Removing George Washington says a lot more about the Left than the Right.

3. Because the government has gotten out of control. Only big cities succeed from big government. There's no real big cities in much of the South, which are liberal leaning anyway, so they suffer the most.


soooo basically

the democrats became republicans, and the republicans democrats

thanks for proving my f***ing point
RcBcoop80 4 days ago#21
Democrats were the party of slavery. Surprised so many uneducated people are gathered in one spot.
That statue built in the era of Jim Crow and christened at a Democrat whites only event means that we, the party of Lincoln must demand it remain up. A reminder of our great southern heritage. Durrr!
Carmelo 4 days ago#23
RcBcoop80 posted...
Democrats were the party of slavery. Surprised so many uneducated people are gathered in one spot.


and the democrat voting bloc became the republican one and vice versa

I wonder do some people even think? do they wonder about why black people universally vote democrat? wouldn't make sense if they were still the party of slavery now would it?
Gradieus 4 days ago#24
Carmelo posted...
soooo basically

the democrats became republicans, and the republicans democrats

thanks for proving my f***ing point


Why did you ask me questions if you're just going to troll my response? Where did I say anywhere about race or racism?

Democrats purposefully chose to move away from pro-life, 2nd amendment and immigration. How does that make Republicans the party of slavery?

The South would vote Democrat if a good Democrat candidate was available just like Michigan and Pennsylvania will vote Republican if a good Republican candidate was available (Trump).

Anything more than that is just purposefully trying to re-imagine history.
Gradieus 4 days ago#25
Carmelo posted...
I wonder do some people even think? do they wonder about why black people universally vote democrat? wouldn't make sense if they were still the party of slavery now would it?


Neither party is the party of slavery today, what the heck is wrong with you?
Nicodaemos 4 days ago#26
Because a lot of people are dumb animals whose political literacy begins and ends with party names.
Until you spread your wings, you'll never know how far you can walk.
Heineken14 4 days ago#27
Because, being the Party of Personal Responsibility™, the right refuses to accept any responsibility and therefore must always blame someone else.
Rage is a hell of an anesthetic.
WarDog2016 4 days ago#28
Carmelo posted...
@Gradieus

explain then:

why are the southern former confederate states primarily red today?

why is it the republican party who wants to defend confederate monuments today?

why is the republican party the party of states rights today?


Lincoln believed in states rights.
Maybe you should consider renaming the party to drop all that baggage. Otherwise you aren't going to be allowed to revise its history as you so desperately desire.

Fits in with your iconoclasm right. You can destroy monuments and I assume you'll want to rename a state and the nation's capital since they are named after that evil slaveowner. So renaming your party should be easy right. So why have you done it yet?
Carmelo 4 days ago#30
Gradieus posted...
Carmelo posted...
soooo basically

the democrats became republicans, and the republicans democrats

thanks for proving my f***ing point


Why did you ask me questions if you're just going to troll my response? Where did I say anywhere about race or racism?

Democrats purposefully chose to move away from pro-life, 2nd amendment and immigration. How does that make Republicans the party of slavery?

The South would vote Democrat if a good Democrat candidate was available just like Michigan and Pennsylvania will vote Republican if a good Republican candidate was available (Trump).

Anything more than that is just purposefully trying to re-imagine history.


I actually didn't say anything about slavery but I like how you're continuing to make my damn argument for me

what is it called when voters move from one party to another because of changing party platforms?

party realignment
(edited 4 days ago)reportquote
Heineken14 4 days ago#31
TundraKing87 posted...
The Dems were the party of slavery! We are the party of Lincoln! The Southern strategy is a myth!...OMG! Muh confederate statues! Muh heritage!


"The Civil War was over 150 years ago! People need to get over it! No black person alive was a slave, and no white person alive owned any of those slaves!..... but just in case, it was totes the democrats who did it and you shouldn't forget or forgive that part!.... also, we must preserve all of that because muh heritage, despite being born and raised in a Northern Union state!"
Rage is a hell of an anesthetic.
Carmelo 4 days ago#32
WarDog2016 posted...
Carmelo posted...
@Gradieus

explain then:

why are the southern former confederate states primarily red today?

why is it the republican party who wants to defend confederate monuments today?

why is the republican party the party of states rights today?


Lincoln believed in states rights.


Lincoln was regularly attacked as a tyrant by the other party, one who wanted to abuse big government for federal overreach

sound familiar?
Carmelo 4 days ago#33
Nicodaemos posted...
Because a lot of people are dumb animals whose political literacy begins and ends with party names.


I have to say for many making this argument, it seems to be the case
Gradieus 4 days ago#34
Carmelo posted...
Gradieus posted...
Carmelo posted...
soooo basically

the democrats became republicans, and the republicans democrats

thanks for proving my f***ing point


Why did you ask me questions if you're just going to troll my response? Where did I say anywhere about race or racism?

Democrats purposefully chose to move away from pro-life, 2nd amendment and immigration. How does that make Republicans the party of slavery?

The South would vote Democrat if a good Democrat candidate was available just like Michigan and Pennsylvania will vote Republican if a good Republican candidate was available (Trump).

Anything more than that is just purposefully trying to re-imagine history.


I actually didn't say anything about slavery but I like how you're continuing to make my damn argument for me

what is it called when voters move from one party to another because of changing party platforms?

party realignment


You don't even know what you're arguing about.
Carmelo 4 days ago#35
Yami_no_Geimu posted...
Maybe you should consider renaming the party to drop all that baggage. Otherwise you aren't going to be allowed to revise its history as you so desperately desire.

Fits in with your iconoclasm right. You can destroy monuments and I assume you'll want to rename a state and the nation's capital since they are named after that evil slaveowner. So renaming your party should be easy right. So why have you done it yet?


no one wants to revise history. I fully agree the democratic party used to be the pro slavery party. Just as I agree that the individual party positions switched so today the democratic party is the one that is more favorable to minorities.

Unless you live in a world where institutions can never change what they stand for, ever, I don't see how this is a contradiction
RcBcoop80 posted...
Democrats were the party of slavery. Surprised so many uneducated people are gathered in one spot.


Yes, they sure WERE (past tense). Which side is defending the confederates NOW (present tense)?
Gradieus 4 days ago#37
Carmelo posted...
I fully agree the democratic party used to be the pro slavery party.


Carmelo posted...

Can someone explain why "democrats were confederates" is still a thing


Congratulations, you played yourself. It's because democrats were confederates, shocking I know!
Gradieus 4 days ago#38
Russian Rocket posted...
RcBcoop80 posted...
Democrats were the party of slavery. Surprised so many uneducated people are gathered in one spot.


Yes, they sure WERE (past tense). Which side is defending the confederates NOW (present tense)?


Confederates don't exist anymore.
its like when people bring up robert byrd as some sort of sick burn when by all indications he changed his views and actively worked to denounce his past and was praised by groups like the naacp for his work.

People can change just look at trump he changes opinions more often than a chameleon changes colors.
Gradieus is a well-known s***poster, please treat him as such.
I don't know what fact surprised me most: That the man had shot my cat, that I cared for that cat, or that I had a cat.
Gradieus 4 days ago#41
Culturally_Lao posted...
Gradieus is a well-known s***poster, please treat him as such.


What are you talking about? OP asked why democrats were confederates and mocked anyone who believed that, and then admits he believes democrats were the pro-slavers.

So he's mocking himself, the very definition of a s*** poster.
divot1338 4 days ago#42
@TC
The people making these claims know full well about party realignment.

However they know that their voter base is easily misled, mostly elderly, and open to hearing any sort of baseless slander.
Moustache twirling villian
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Gradieus posted...
Culturally_Lao posted...
Gradieus is a well-known s***poster, please treat him as such.


What are you talking about? OP asked why democrats were confederates and mocked anyone who believed that, and then admits he believes democrats were the pro-slavers.

So he's mocking himself, the very definition of a s*** poster.


1: Not what he asked
2: Not the definition of a s***poster
I don't know what fact surprised me most: That the man had shot my cat, that I cared for that cat, or that I had a cat.
Heineken14 4 days ago#44
divot1338 posted...
@TC
The people making these claims know full well about party realignment.

However they know that their voter base is easily misled, mostly elderly, and open to hearing any sort of baseless slander.


I mean, look at people like DLP. Right wingers who openly embrace their ignorance. It's republican 101, they denounce all the "intellectuals."
Rage is a hell of an anesthetic.
Xtopher85 4 days ago#45
Carmelo posted...
Just yesterday on Fox an argument to the effect of "DEMOCRATS were the party of slavery! Checkmate liberals!" was made. And I've seen it countless times on twitter 

Basically why the f*** are so many republicans totally ignorant of political realignment? These are supposedly educated (lol) people too who apparently know stuff about history but not that. I literally learned this in high school! Is it the kind of thing where they only taught it in the northern states but not the south? It's such a simplistic and easily refuted argument that I can't believe people are still making it but here we are

Willful ignorance to suit one's argument is nothing new. That doesn't make it any less pathetic, though.
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Gradieus 4 days ago#46
Culturally_Lao posted...
Gradieus posted...
Culturally_Lao posted...
Gradieus is a well-known s***poster, please treat him as such.


What are you talking about? OP asked why democrats were confederates and mocked anyone who believed that, and then admits he believes democrats were the pro-slavers.

So he's mocking himself, the very definition of a s*** poster.


1: Not what he asked
2: Not the definition of a s***poster


1. Read the topic title.
2. Now you're s*** posting.
divot1338 posted...
@TC
The people making these claims know full well about party realignment.


Basically this. It's a misinformation technique. But no matter how many times they try to explain it away, actual Republicans who implemented and promoted the Southern Strategy have written all about it. And no matter what their deflection is, that won't change reality nor will it change how history remembers the truth. Just laugh at them.
Gradieus posted...
Culturally_Lao posted...
Gradieus posted...
Culturally_Lao posted...
Gradieus is a well-known s***poster, please treat him as such.


What are you talking about? OP asked why democrats were confederates and mocked anyone who believed that, and then admits he believes democrats were the pro-slavers.

So he's mocking himself, the very definition of a s*** poster.


1: Not what he asked
2: Not the definition of a s***poster


1. Read the topic title.
2. Now you're s*** posting.


This type of low effort posting is pretty expected from you, Gradieus.
I don't know what fact surprised me most: That the man had shot my cat, that I cared for that cat, or that I had a cat.
Nundulan 4 days ago#49
Gradieus posted...
Culturally_Lao posted...
Gradieus posted...
Culturally_Lao posted...
Gradieus is a well-known s***poster, please treat him as such.


What are you talking about? OP asked why democrats were confederates and mocked anyone who believed that, and then admits he believes democrats were the pro-slavers.

So he's mocking himself, the very definition of a s*** poster.


1: Not what he asked
2: Not the definition of a s***poster


1. Read the topic title.
2. Now you're s*** posting.

You're not very smart are you
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    3. Can someone explain why "democrats were confederates" is still a thing
    AngelsNAirwav3s posted...
    The dixiecrats pushed for segregation


    Yeah, f*** those southern farmers
    I don't know what fact surprised me most: That the man had shot my cat, that I cared for that cat, or that I had a cat.
    Gradieus posted...
    Russian Rocket posted...
    RcBcoop80 posted...
    Democrats were the party of slavery. Surprised so many uneducated people are gathered in one spot.


    Yes, they sure WERE (past tense). Which side is defending the confederates NOW (present tense)?


    Confederates don't exist anymore.


    Um, no s***? I ask again.....are you being intentionally stupid or is this the real you?
    RcBcoop80 4 days ago#53
    Carmelo posted...
    RcBcoop80 posted...
    Democrats were the party of slavery. Surprised so many uneducated people are gathered in one spot.


    and the democrat voting bloc became the republican one and vice versa

    I wonder do some people even think? do they wonder about why black people universally vote democrat? wouldn't make sense if they were still the party of slavery now would it?

    You're so far out of your depth it's not even funny. I suggest you do real research on this topic to understand why dems are the party of slavery.
    (edited 4 days ago)reportquote
    AceRabbit 4 days ago#54
    RcBcoop80 posted...
    Carmelo posted...
    RcBcoop80 posted...
    Democrats were the party of slavery. Surprised so many uneducated people are gathered in one spot.


    and the democrat voting bloc became the republican one and vice versa

    I wonder do some people even think? do they wonder about why black people universally vote democrat? wouldn't make sense if they were still the party of slavery now would it?

    You're so far out of your depth it's not even funny. I suggest you do real research on this topic to understand why dems are the party of slavery.


    The Civil Rights Act mayhaps?
    Over the mountain.
    Xtopher85 4 days ago#55
    Let's flip it to the Republicans who love to call on the name of Lincoln but don't seem to understand party realignment. In the immortal words of Dot-Com from 30 Rock "Actually, today's Republican party would be unrecognizable to Lincoln. He fought a war to preserve federal authority over the states, that's not exactly small government."
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    GritBusters 4 days ago#56
    Carmelo posted...
    Just yesterday on Fox an argument to the effect of "DEMOCRATS were the party of slavery! Checkmate liberals!" was made. And I've seen it countless times on twitter 

    Basically why the f*** are so many republicans totally ignorant of political realignment? These are supposedly educated (lol) people too who apparently know stuff about history but not that. I literally learned this in high school! Is it the kind of thing where they only taught it in the northern states but not the south? It's such a simplistic and easily refuted argument that I can't believe people are still making it but here we are


    It's a problem on the American right.

    It doesn't really exist in Canadian discourse and makes about as much sense as arguing that the Conservative Party of Canada will tear up NAFTA because "The Conservatives are the party of the Empire and the National Policy while the Liberals are the party of continentalism and reciprocity."
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    lilORANG 4 days ago#57
    It's technically true but completely meaningless given historical context.
    Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids.
    Carmelo 4 days ago#58
    lilORANG posted...
    It's technically true but completely meaningless given historical context.


    which is apparently waaaay too much for people to grasp 

    "the democrats were the party of slavery and small government in 1860"

    "yeah but they would be the exact opposite today"

    "how? their name is the DEMOCRATS! and the democrats were the party of slavery and small government in 1860!"

    it's like a blatant refusal to use deductive reasoning
    YahooPoster 4 days ago#59
    You can take a class on the history of U.S. politics in college and learn it there. Only problem is a lot of Republicans think colleges are lying. Which I then wonder where they get their information from. Consider the source.
    I post on Yahoo.
    Carmelo posted...
    lilORANG posted...
    It's technically true but completely meaningless given historical context.


    which is apparently waaaay too much for people to grasp 

    "the democrats were the party of slavery and small government in 1860"

    "yeah but they would be the exact opposite today"

    "how? their name is the DEMOCRATS! and the democrats were the party of slavery and small government in 1860!"

    it's like a blatant refusal to use deductive reasoning



    yet if you go on about the crusades to point out christians can be bad too you get people going on and on about how that was so long ago, doesnt matter now.
    What I find most interesting about the argument is that they're using it to try to disparage democrats...while at the same time defending racism. Pick a side guys. Either racism is bad and the party that supported it was bad, or racism is good and the party that supported it was good.

    Even if it were true that democrats were the racists...that doesn't matter anymore. What matters is who the racists are now.
    It's like punching a round bottom dummy. We all know it's futile, but occasionally it's fun.
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    Gradieus posted...
    Lord_of_BeefDip posted...
    Gradieus posted...
    Because there's no such thing as political realignment. 

    That's just how democrats try to bury their own heinous past.


    Except there was. After the civil rights act most of the solid south started voting GOP. In 1968 Wallace won most of them on his pro-segregationist platform, and after that most southern states who preciously voted Democratic felt the party moves to far left (And had allied with blacks.) and started voting Republican by similar margins as they used to vote Dem. It really is no coincidence that states that voted Dem by large margins in 1960 were voting decisively Republican by 1972 on.

    At the same time the liberal wing in the GOP was shrinking, with many urban inner city Republicans who were moderate to liberal jumping ship. Black people also used to favor the GOP (Or were at least a large presence. ), yet as its conservative wing grew, with racist southern Dems joining and altering the party strategy, combined with the Civil Rights act, all that together led to an exodus of black and minority voters from the Republican party to the Democratic party.


    Jimmy Carter won the south in 1976 so your proposition of 1968 and 1972 hold no basis. What's more likely is that there hasn't been a good Democratic candidate since Carter that focuses on issues relevant to the South like immigration, pro-life, and gun control.

    Carter won the south because not even Southerners could forgive Ford for pardoning Nixon.
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    Gradieus 4 days ago#63
    Russian Rocket posted...
    Gradieus posted...
    Russian Rocket posted...
    RcBcoop80 posted...
    Democrats were the party of slavery. Surprised so many uneducated people are gathered in one spot.


    Yes, they sure WERE (past tense). Which side is defending the confederates NOW (present tense)?


    Confederates don't exist anymore.


    Um, no s***? I ask again.....are you being intentionally stupid or is this the real you?


    No one is defending confederates.
    Charliesix 4 days ago#64
    Funny thing is that most republicans view confederate statues as a southern pride thing while most democrats see them as racist symbols, according to yougov polls. 

    The confederacy killed a s*** ton of republican bannermen and was a democrat army. 

    Robert e lee must be turning over in his grave as democrat in name only people try to tear him down on behalf of Republicans like abe lincoln
    Trump's closest adviser hired multiple white supremacists to write for Breitbart News. Evidence: http://www.breitbarttruth.com
    Willful illiteracy and/or desperation to deflect from their embracing of the remnants of (what ought to be) abandoned ideologies from the 19th and 20th centuries.
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    (edited 4 days ago)reportquote
    Carmelo 4 days ago#66
    Charliesix posted...
    Funny thing is that most republicans view confederate statues as a southern pride thing while most democrats see them as racist symbols, according to yougov polls. 

    The confederacy killed a s*** ton of republican bannermen and was a democrat army. 

    Robert e lee must be turning over in his grave as democrat in name only people try to tear him down on behalf of Republicans like abe lincoln


    yet another point of cognitive dissonance

    they claim the confederate symbol as southern pride and at the same time disparage the former party of the south 

    like, choose one. Either you embrace confederate history and admit you're embracing democrats of an old era or admonish those democrats and also admonish the confederate heritage
    Alesandros 4 days ago#67
    ThePieReborn posted...
    Willful illiteracy and/or desperation to deflect from their embracing of the remnants of (what ought to be) abandoned ideologies from the 19th and 20th centuries.


    Communism?
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    [Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/AlesandrosX?feature=mhee]
    Probably because the democrats were confederates
    Are we referencing communism as described by Marx (an idyllic dream in the best of circumstances) or the paranoid lunacy wrangled together by the standard 20th century despots?

    To both, I would say they ought to be abandoned. I don't see the Democrats jumping to embrace either of these things, however.
    Party leader, passive-aggressive doormat, pasta eater extraordinaire!
    (edited 4 days ago)reportquote
    thrashmetal14 posted...
    Probably because the democrats were confederates


    This makes no sense, unless you ignored his post and just read the topic title. f***ing Christ.
    Carmelo 4 days ago#71
    the more I read this topic the more I'm convinced that people simply are unable to engage with a level of thinking more complicated than "R good, D bad!"

    democrats were the party of slavery? makes sense, D bad! But democrats then would be republicans today? Impossible, because R good! We had Lincoln! Lincoln wanted big government? Must have been good, because R good! But big government is bad today because democrats want it and D bad!
    Red XlV 4 days ago#72
    Gradieus posted...
    Carmelo posted...
    @Gradieus

    explain then:

    why are the southern former confederate states primarily red today?

    why is it the republican party who wants to defend confederate monuments today?

    why is the republican party the party of states rights today?


    1. Because no Democratic candidate focuses on immigration, pro-life and 2nd amendment. Carter won the south in 1976 so any notion about 1968 and 1972 flipping things is moot. You just need a better candidate.

    2. Because monuments are history and my history is your history. Advocating for the removal of George Washington statues and blowing up My. Rushmore is pathetic and goes against everything Americans stand for. Removing George Washington says a lot more about the Left than the Right.

    3. Because the government has gotten out of control. Only big cities succeed from big government. There's no real big cities in much of the South, which are liberal leaning anyway, so they suffer the most.

    Well I have to give you credit for having at least one true statement in your post. Carter did in fact win the South in 1976. A single true statement is an improvement for you, but everything else you said is a lie.

    Nobody is "advocating for the removal of George Washington statues and blowing up My. Rushmore", and the reason Republicans are defending Confederate statues (largely erected on behalf of the Ku Klux Klan in the 1920s, or as symbols of defiance of the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 60s) is because they approve of the white supremacist ideology of the Confederacy.

    And claiming there aren't any big cities in the South is flat-out insane. Apparently you think that Houston, the 4th largest city in America with a population of 2.1 million and a metro area of 6 million. Also apparently not existing: such large cities as Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, Tampa, Baltimore, San Antonio, Nashville, Jacksonville, Memphis, Richmond, New Orleans, Raleigh, and Birmingham, all of which have metro areas of over 1 million.
    A bad enough dude to save the President.
    "We chose more government instead of more freedom." - Marco Rubio (R-Florida) on the Bush administration
    Sir_RaZZo 4 days ago#73
    mystic belmont posted...
    Yes, the Democrat party was the party of the KKK,


    There's more to it than this, back then ideology was based a lot on the region someone came from. Democrats in Northern states were still progressive. Southern Republicans weren't very prevalent, but they were just as racist as their Democratic counterparts.
    It will rain soon. Blood will fall like rain...-Karel
    Member of The Phoenix Force
    Gradieus 4 days ago#74
    Carmelo posted...
    the more I read this topic the more I'm convinced that people simply are unable to engage with a level of thinking more complicated than "R good, D bad!"

    democrats were the party of slavery? makes sense, D bad! But democrats then would be republicans today? Impossible, because R good! We had Lincoln! Lincoln wanted big government? Must have been good, because R good! But big government is bad today because democrats want it and D bad!


    I don't know any Republican that wants to bring back slavery, so your entire premise is proven to be stupid yet again.
    Gradieus 4 days ago#75
    Red XlV posted...
    Well I have to give you credit for having at least one true statement in your post. Carter did in fact win the South in 1976. A single true statement is an improvement for you, but everything else you said is a lie.

    Nobody is "advocating for the removal of George Washington statues and blowing up My. Rushmore", and the reason Republicans are defending Confederate statues (largely erected on behalf of the Ku Klux Klan in the 1920s, or as symbols of defiance of the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 60s) is because they approve of the white supremacist ideology of the Confederacy.

    And claiming there aren't any big cities in the South is flat-out insane. Apparently you think that Houston, the 4th largest city in America with a population of 2.1 million and a metro area of 6 million. Also apparently not existing: such large cities as Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, Tampa, Baltimore, San Antonio, Nashville, Jacksonville, Memphis, Richmond, New Orleans, Raleigh, and Birmingham, all of which have metro areas of over 1 million.


    https://cdn.newsbusters.org/styles/blog_body-50/s3/images/lets_blow_up_mount_rushmore.png



    They don't want to remove them because they're part of history. Lincoln forgave them, why can't you?

    I said they're left leaning cities and they are. Just look at the results in Texas.

    Hey look at that, everything I said was true! Go me!
    Carmelo 4 days ago#76
    Gradieus posted...
    Carmelo posted...
    the more I read this topic the more I'm convinced that people simply are unable to engage with a level of thinking more complicated than "R good, D bad!"

    democrats were the party of slavery? makes sense, D bad! But democrats then would be republicans today? Impossible, because R good! We had Lincoln! Lincoln wanted big government? Must have been good, because R good! But big government is bad today because democrats want it and D bad!


    I don't know any Republican that wants to bring back slavery, so your entire premise is proven to be stupid yet again.


    but I know plenty who want to curtail the size of government and have states rights be supreme

    which was exactly what the democrats in the 1860s wanted

    checkmate @Gradieus
    Gradieus 4 days ago#77
    Carmelo posted...
    Gradieus posted...
    Carmelo posted...
    the more I read this topic the more I'm convinced that people simply are unable to engage with a level of thinking more complicated than "R good, D bad!"

    democrats were the party of slavery? makes sense, D bad! But democrats then would be republicans today? Impossible, because R good! We had Lincoln! Lincoln wanted big government? Must have been good, because R good! But big government is bad today because democrats want it and D bad!


    I don't know any Republican that wants to bring back slavery, so your entire premise is proven to be stupid yet again.


    but I know plenty who want to curtail the size of government and have states rights be supreme

    which was exactly what the democrats in the 1860s wanted

    checkmate Gradieus


    If you vote based off a single position that's your own prerogative.
    Russian Rocket posted...
    thrashmetal14 posted...
    Probably because the democrats were confederates


    This makes no sense, unless you ignored his post and just read the topic title. f***ing Christ.


    The Democrats at the time were Confederates. Makes sense to me.
    Carmelo 4 days ago#79
    thrashmetal14 posted...
    Russian Rocket posted...
    thrashmetal14 posted...
    Probably because the democrats were confederates


    This makes no sense, unless you ignored his post and just read the topic title. f***ing Christ.


    The Democrats at the time were Confederates. Makes sense to me.


    And the democrats of now wouldn't be. Pretending that today's democrats are hypocrites for being against confederate monuments requires you to pretend that both parties ideologically never moved from the 19th century.
    Still love that Muslim Americans can't build a community center using private dollars on private property because that is a symbol that the foreign terrorists won! The ashes of a Burlington coat factory is sacred! 9/11! Never forget!

    ...but taxpayer dollars going towards statues and sites honoring terrorists who wanted to preserve slavery indefinitely are A-OK to the far right.
    (edited 3 days ago)reportquote
    thrashmetal14 posted...
    Russian Rocket posted...
    thrashmetal14 posted...
    Probably because the democrats were confederates


    This makes no sense, unless you ignored his post and just read the topic title. f***ing Christ.


    The Democrats at the time were Confederates. Makes sense to me.


    Well, no. The confederacy was based on the idea of anti-partyism. But still, you're missing the point.
    Unknown280 3 days ago#82
    Gradieus posted...
    Because there's no such thing as political realignment. 

    That's just how republicans try to bury their own heinous past.
    Gradieus 3 days ago#83
    Unknown280 posted...
    Gradieus posted...
    Because there's no such thing as political realignment. 

    That's just how republicans try to bury their own heinous past.


    New user figuring out the quote button and then changing what the quote originally said?

    How original.
    zhukov1943 3 days ago#84
    Saw a hilarious Twitter post during the whole Charlottesville thing:

    "The current armed wing of the Democratic party is meeting the former armed wing of the Democratic party."
    'Reality,' sa molesworth 2, 'is so unspeakably sordid it make me shudder.'
    #85
    (message deleted)
    Carmelo 3 days ago#86
    Unknown280 posted...
    Gradieus posted...
    Because there's no such thing as political realignment. 

    That's just how republicans try to bury their own heinous past.


    it's really crazy how republicans claim to the party of lincoln thing with an iron fist and totally ignore the stuff he did was the most big government s*** in our history
    Xtopher85 3 days ago#87
    zhukov1943 posted...
    Saw a hilarious Twitter post during the whole Charlottesville thing:

    "The current armed wing of the Democratic party is meeting the former armed wing of the Democratic party."

    Hilarious because of how willfully ignorant it is? Ohhhhh hahaha yeah I get jokes.
    -PSN: Xtopher85
    "Being alive is pretty much a constant stream of embarassment." - Pod 153
    JoCrazy 3 days ago#88
    My Uncle tried to pull the Republicans freed the slaves, etc BS on FB the other day. Had to explain the Civil Rights movement and Nixion's Southern Strategy where the Parties switched. The GOP became Conservative and The Dems became liberal.
    X-Box One Gamertag: KrankDaddy - Currently playing: Mass Effect, WWE 2K17, GTA Online
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    Carmelo 3 days ago#89
    JoCrazy posted...
    My Uncle tried to pull the Republicans freed the slaves, etc BS on FB the other day. Had to explain the Civil Rights movement and Nixion's Southern Strategy where the Parties switched. The GOP became Conservative and The Dems became liberal.

    did he listen?
    Super_Guido 3 days ago#90
    I don't see why it's wrong. Yes, there was a re-alignment as political parties are not static. But from a historical perspective the Democrats were the party of slavery and Jim Crow during that time, that's not an inaccurate thing to say. Nowadays it's unrecognizable from what it was in the 1800s and early 1900s but as I said, that's part of the party's history.
    zhukov1943 3 days ago#91
    Xtopher85 posted...
    zhukov1943 posted...
    Saw a hilarious Twitter post during the whole Charlottesville thing:

    "The current armed wing of the Democratic party is meeting the former armed wing of the Democratic party."

    Hilarious because of how willfully ignorant it is? Ohhhhh hahaha yeah I get jokes.


    You know, rather than deflecting and hiding from your history you should own it.
    'Reality,' sa molesworth 2, 'is so unspeakably sordid it make me shudder.'
    Super_Guido posted...
    I don't see why it's wrong. Yes, there was a re-alignment as political parties are not static. But from a historical perspective the Democrats were the party of slavery and Jim Crow during that time, that's not an inaccurate thing to say. Nowadays it's unrecognizable from what it was in the 1800s and early 1900s but as I said, that's part of the party's history.


    Because it's irrelevant and they always do it without sufficient context.
    PSN: TheUndying84
    Because most people have never once studied American history, or if they did they were too f***ing stupid to understand what happened in the 60's.
    The internet, where people come to be a dumbass.
    TaiIs82 3 days ago#94
    Never happened, TC.

    https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/261-politics/60084447#14
    https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/261-politics/60084447#45
    https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/261-politics/74590672#17



    "Actually, today's Republican party would be unrecognizable to Lincoln. He fought a war to preserve-

    There's your key word. Lincoln's fight was a conservative one, as laid down by his definition of conservatism at Cooper Union. The preservation of our constitution and the rule of law, vs people who wanted to secede and ignore elections if they didn't get their way.

    "But state's rights!" Many northern states ignored and would have been perfectly fine with nullifying fugitive slave codes, which were a federal imposition. The Dred Scott decision had nothing to do with the constitution and was like the Roe or Obergefell of its era, it was just an activist Democrat judge on his soapbox demanding that he get what he personally wanted. One must also wonder how much Democrats cared about state or individual rights, when they were the ones who crossed over with slave catchers and violent mobs to burn down abolitionist presses. Anti-speech and anti-freedom party, some things never change.
    Hero/Legend of 261. Lover of life,free speech,etc. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/1196-
    The man who cared too much. Providing trickle-down knowledge since 2009
    (edited 3 days ago)reportquote
    BlazBBQ 3 days ago#95
    Jefferson Davis, who served as president of the confederacy, was a Democrat as well. 

    If anyone is trying to claim that Democrats weren't the party of slavery and Jim Crowe, they are trying to rewrite history. Even Google is so ashamed of this history (we know their allegiances) that they removed Jefferson Davis' affiliation with the Democratic Party from the search results, even though he is correctly listed as such on Wikipedia. History is there so we can learn from it, and why we must cherish and protect the freedoms our country has fought for.
    Tha anti-myth rhythm rock shocker...
    BlazBBQ posted...
    Jefferson Davis, who served as president of the confederacy, was a Democrat as well. 

    If anyone is trying to claim that Democrats weren't the party of slavery and Jim Crowe, they are trying to rewrite history. Even Google is so ashamed of this history (we know their allegiances) that they removed Jefferson Davis' affiliation with the Democratic Party from the search results, even though he is correctly listed as such on Wikipedia. History is there so we can learn from it, and why we must cherish and protect the freedoms our country has fought for.


    Literally no one is saying this. How surprised am I that someone with the number of brain cells you have missed the point. And under the Confederacy, there were no parties. They were anti-partyism.
    BlazBBQ 3 days ago#97
    Russian Rocket posted...
    BlazBBQ posted...
    Jefferson Davis, who served as president of the confederacy, was a Democrat as well. 

    If anyone is trying to claim that Democrats weren't the party of slavery and Jim Crowe, they are trying to rewrite history. Even Google is so ashamed of this history (we know their allegiances) that they removed Jefferson Davis' affiliation with the Democratic Party from the search results, even though he is correctly listed as such on Wikipedia. History is there so we can learn from it, and why we must cherish and protect the freedoms our country has fought for.


    Literally no one is saying this. How surprised am I that someone with the number of brain cells you have missed the point. And under the Confederacy, there were no parties. They were anti-partyism.


    He is a former member of the US Senate (D).
    Tha anti-myth rhythm rock shocker...
    Carmelo 3 days ago#98
    I think I get it, some people literally think democrats are trying to remove confederate monuments because we're trying to hide the fact that the democratic party was the party of slavery, in some kind of self serving attempt to wipe out history.

    The idea that maybe we don't care which party was the party of slavery in 1860, and would want to remove the monuments even if they were republican ones, because it's about slavery being bad, not partisan cowardice, never crosses these people's minds apparently
    (edited 3 days ago)reportquote
    Carmelo 3 days ago#99
    BlazBBQ posted...
    Russian Rocket posted...
    BlazBBQ posted...
    Jefferson Davis, who served as president of the confederacy, was a Democrat as well. 

    If anyone is trying to claim that Democrats weren't the party of slavery and Jim Crowe, they are trying to rewrite history. Even Google is so ashamed of this history (we know their allegiances) that they removed Jefferson Davis' affiliation with the Democratic Party from the search results, even though he is correctly listed as such on Wikipedia. History is there so we can learn from it, and why we must cherish and protect the freedoms our country has fought for.


    Literally no one is saying this. How surprised am I that someone with the number of brain cells you have missed the point. And under the Confederacy, there were no parties. They were anti-partyism.


    He is a former member of the US Senate (D).


    great. Now did your brain cells completely stop working when you got to the letter "D?" What relevance does this have to the parties today? Parties which completely flipped in ideology?
    BlazBBQ posted...
    Jefferson Davis, who served as president of the confederacy, was a Democrat as well. 

    If anyone is trying to claim that Democrats weren't the party of slavery and Jim Crowe, they are trying to rewrite history. Even Google is so ashamed of this history (we know their allegiances) that they removed Jefferson Davis' affiliation with the Democratic Party from the search results, even though he is correctly listed as such on Wikipedia. History is there so we can learn from it, and why we must cherish and protect the freedoms our country has fought for.


    It's revisionist history tactic. 

    Can't forget FDR Executive Order 9066, that one took four Presidents three being Republicans to clean up that one. 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9066
    Avatars are frauds and bullies. The universe is a hologram. Buy gold, buy.
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      slaity 3 days ago#101
      lies, misinformation, f news from F News
      if I'm always right I learn nothing, if I'm wrong twice I learn 2 things
      sfcalimari 3 days ago#102
      "Democrats were the party of slavery!"

      "So why don't you support them?"
      Obama 2008
      Calintares 3 days ago#103
      how does these "the realignment never happened"-people explain Strom Thurmond and his ilk of racist southern Democrats changing party allegiance in the 60s?
      ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do and die.
      BlazBBQ posted...
      Russian Rocket posted...
      BlazBBQ posted...
      Jefferson Davis, who served as president of the confederacy, was a Democrat as well. 

      If anyone is trying to claim that Democrats weren't the party of slavery and Jim Crowe, they are trying to rewrite history. Even Google is so ashamed of this history (we know their allegiances) that they removed Jefferson Davis' affiliation with the Democratic Party from the search results, even though he is correctly listed as such on Wikipedia. History is there so we can learn from it, and why we must cherish and protect the freedoms our country has fought for.


      Literally no one is saying this. How surprised am I that someone with the number of brain cells you have missed the point. And under the Confederacy, there were no parties. They were anti-partyism.


      He is a former member of the US Senate (D).


      And your point?
      Heineken14 3 days ago#105
      Carmelo posted...
      I think I get it, some people literally think democrats are trying to remove confederate monuments because we're trying to hide the fact that the democratic party was the party of slavery, in some kind of self serving attempt to wipe out history.

      The idea that maybe we don't care which party was the party of slavery in 1860, and would want to remove the monuments even if they were republican ones, because it's about slavery being bad, not partisan cowardice, never crosses these people's minds apparently


      It's because they are the Party of Projection. 

      "Well, that's what WE would do, and we play super hardcore identity politics... so of course that's obviously what the democrats are trying to do! Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm on the Texas board to approve what goes into textbooks and I need to make our history seem more pleasant than it was, so those evil history revisionist democrats can't do it!"
      Rage is a hell of an anesthetic.
      Calintares posted...
      how does these "the realignment never happened"-people explain Strom Thurmond and his ilk of racist southern Democrats changing party allegiance in the 60s?


      Same thing could be asked why people speaking angrily against racism and slavery of the past are siding with the Democratic party that perpetrated those very things.
      Avatars are frauds and bullies. The universe is a hologram. Buy gold, buy.
      NeotheLight posted...
      Calintares posted...
      how does these "the realignment never happened"-people explain Strom Thurmond and his ilk of racist southern Democrats changing party allegiance in the 60s?


      Same thing could be asked why people speaking angrily against racism and slavery of the past are siding with the Democratic party that perpetrated those very things.


      This can't be a real post constructed using logic. Simply impossible.
      Carmelo 3 days ago#108
      NeotheLight posted...
      Calintares posted...
      how does these "the realignment never happened"-people explain Strom Thurmond and his ilk of racist southern Democrats changing party allegiance in the 60s?


      Same thing could be asked why people speaking angrily against racism and slavery of the past are siding with the Democratic party that perpetrated those very things.


      they perpetuated those things in the past. they do the opposite now. literal 0.5 seconds of thought could have led you to this answer
      Xtopher85 3 days ago#109
      NeotheLight posted...
      Calintares posted...
      how does these "the realignment never happened"-people explain Strom Thurmond and his ilk of racist southern Democrats changing party allegiance in the 60s?


      Same thing could be asked why people speaking angrily against racism and slavery of the past are siding with the Democratic party that perpetrated those very things.

      Since we're on a video game site, allow me to draw a video game analogy. The games Prey (2006) and Prey (2017) are about different things. Amazing how two items bearing the same name can be so different!
      -PSN: Xtopher85
      "Being alive is pretty much a constant stream of embarassment." - Pod 153
      If anyone says that the Democrats were the party of slavery (and that Republicans love America), just show them this. Trump voters would support Democrat and traitor Jefferson over the first black president. Who supports slavery now motherf***ers?

      https://twitter.com/Eugene_Scott/status/900435456491364352
      "Our party is currently full of racists, but Democrats are the REAL racists, because their party was full of racists 150 years ago."

      "Also, the confederates weren't racist."
      (edited 2 days ago)reportquote
      Gradieus posted...
      Because there's no such thing as political realignment. 

      That's just how democrats try to bury their own heinous past.
      The ancient Oracle said that I was the wisest of all the Greeks. It is because I alone, of all the Greeks, know that I know nothing- Socrates
      cognitive dissonance
      tl0_olt 2 days ago#114
      Calintares posted...
      how does these "the realignment never happened"-people explain Strom Thurmond and his ilk of racist southern Democrats changing party allegiance in the 60s?

      Strom thurmond was the only one who switched the rest of the racist democrats just lost their seats over time. The democrats were the ones voting against 1964 civil rights and 1965 votings rights.

      (edited 2 days ago)reportquote
      Red XlV 2 hours ago#115
      tl0_olt posted...
      Calintares posted...
      how does these "the realignment never happened"-people explain Strom Thurmond and his ilk of racist southern Democrats changing party allegiance in the 60s?

      Strom thurmond was the only one who switched the rest of the racist democrats just lost their seats over time. The democrats were the ones voting against 1964 civil rights and 1965 votings rights.


      Literally PragerU.

      And again, Democrats were the ones who wrote the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
      A bad enough dude to save the President.
      "We chose more government instead of more freedom." - Marco Rubio (R-Florida) on the Bush administration
      (edited 2 hours ago)reportquote
      600k 1 hour ago#116
      Most Germans were Nazis in 1939. Therefore most Germans must be Nazis in 2017. Logic.

      But maybe the majority of KKK members secretly voted for Obama twice, who knows.
      600k
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