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Monday, October 23, 2017

VP of Diversity at Apple apologizes for saying white men can be diverse too

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  3. VP of Diversity at Apple apologizes for saying white men can be diverse too
FLUFFYGERM 21 hours ago#1
AffligemFR 21 hours ago#2
It's almost like they are tripping up over themselves.
Massive walking dead fan :)
Funbazooka 21 hours ago#3
Diversity is code for anti-white, essentially.
SSJ4Broly 21 hours ago#4
White is even broken up to many fair skinned races but whatev, leftists suck balls
glitteringfairy  gun baiter21 hours ago#5
Waiting for the racists to defend this
"How come you can believe in God but not Bigfoot?" V-E-G-Y http://i.imgur.com/AqR3aeX.jpg http://i.imgur.com/vvuUXpp.jpg
C_Pain 21 hours ago#6
The left really shot themselves in the foot. They go so over the top with sjw-esque things that it becomes almost satirical and bound to have backlash.
How quaint.
FLUFFYGERM 21 hours ago#7
Funbazooka posted...
Diversity is code for anti-white, essentially.


I've seen people deny this to no end, but then situations like these seem to suggest that diversity really is code for anti-white.
Skye Reynolds 21 hours ago#8
This isn't as bad as what the clickbait title makes it out to be.

“There can be 12 white blue-eyed blonde men in a room and they are going to be diverse too because they’re going to bring a different life experience and life perspective to the conversation,”

There are two ways to read that:

1) white men can offer individual perspectives as well
2) we don't need minority input because a group of white guys will be different from one another

When she apologized, she apologized only on behalf of the potential latter reading of it. To be fair, a lot of people who read it the second way were being willfully stupid so that they could have something to complain about. Others were probably legitimately worried that she was hired as a minority PR woman whose job it was to say to let white guys run things.

It's still pretty stupid that she had to make an apology, but I can see how the misunderstanding genuinely might come about. A little over a decade ago, it very easily could have meant the latter reading rather than the former.
ImTheMacheteGuy 21 hours ago#9
I'm a straight white male and I'm not fucking diverse at all, so that makes sense.
Place-holder sig because new phone and old sigs not saved :/
FLUFFYGERM 21 hours ago#10
Skye Reynolds posted...
This isn't as bad as what the clickbait title makes it out to be.

“There can be 12 white blue-eyed blonde men in a room and they are going to be diverse too because they’re going to bring a different life experience and life perspective to the conversation,”

There are two ways to read that:

1) white men can offer individual perspectives as well
2) we don't need minority input because a group of white guys will be different from one another

When she apologized, she apologized only on behalf of the potential latter reading of it. To be fair, a lot of people who read it the second way were being willfully stupid so that they could have something to complain about. Others were probably legitimately worried that she was hired as a minority PR woman whose job it was to say to let white guys run things.

It's still pretty stupid that she had to make an apology, but I can see how the misunderstanding genuinely might come about. A little over a decade ago, it very easily could have meant the latter reading rather than the former.


No matter how you spin it, what happened was that she received backlash for saying a room full of white men could be diverse too. In other words, that diversity has nothing to do with skin color.
Bullet_Wing 21 hours ago#11
Skye Reynolds posted...
It's still pretty stupid that she had to make an apology, but I can see how the misunderstanding genuinely might come about. A little over a decade ago, it very easily could have meant the latter reading rather than the former.

Make America Great Again
Funbazooka 21 hours ago#12
Skye Reynolds posted...
This isn't as bad as what the clickbait title makes it out to be.

“There can be 12 white blue-eyed blonde men in a room and they are going to be diverse too because they’re going to bring a different life experience and life perspective to the conversation,”

There are two ways to read that:

1) white men can offer individual perspectives as well
2) we don't need minority input because a group of white guys will be different from one another

Anyone who immediately reads that and interprets the meaning as #2 is warped or been fed ridiculous propaganda, because that is not at all what she said. Those people are to be disregarded. 

#1 is a shortened summary of what she literally did say.
masticatingman 20 hours ago#13
Can somebody explain to me why you need a vice president of diversity at a tech company? I'm guessing this person gets paid a very ample salary.
Matter is error. Whoa.
#14
(message deleted)
Blue_Inigo 20 hours ago#15
What she said was fucking stupid. Good that she apologized
"This is your last dance."
DevsBro 20 hours ago#16
Here I assumed this topic title was a lie loke every other news topic title on CE nit no, that's pretty much exactly what happened.
PutUpYourDukes 20 hours ago#17
Blue_Inigo posted...
What she said was fucking stupid. Good that she apologized


Why was it stupid?
glitteringfairy  gun baiter19 hours ago#18
PutUpYourDukes posted...
Blue_Inigo posted...
What she said was fucking stupid. Good that she apologized


Why was it stupid?
"How come you can believe in God but not Bigfoot?" V-E-G-Y http://i.imgur.com/AqR3aeX.jpg http://i.imgur.com/vvuUXpp.jpg
CapnMuffin 18 hours ago#19
Not even a “VP of Diversity” can successfully navigate the current social climate without causing stupid drama. lmao
"its okay a lizard ate me and elucidated my fate" - MJ_Max on Dark Souls
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FLUFFYGERM 18 hours ago#20
CapnMuffin posted...
Not even a “VP of Diversity” can successfully navigate the current social climate without causing stupid drama. lmao


That's because it's all cannibalism at this point
FLUFFYGERM 17 hours ago#21
[Ed. note: Removed comment section because WTF is wrong with you people]
NINExATExSEVEN 17 hours ago#23
FLUFFYGERM posted...
Funbazooka posted...
Diversity is code for anti-white, essentially.


I've seen people deny this to no end, but then situations like these seem to suggest that diversity really is code for anti-white.


This has been known since the SJW agenda started. Nothing can be majority white without being seen as problematic. Not even white countries.

It's almost like the nationalist talking points were true all along.

Who would've guessed.
Listen to my story... This... May be our last chance...
(edited 17 hours ago)reportquote
FLUFFYGERM 17 hours ago#24
NINExATExSEVEN posted...
FLUFFYGERM posted...
Funbazooka posted...
Diversity is code for anti-white, essentially.


I've seen people deny this to no end, but then situations like these seem to suggest that diversity really is code for anti-white.


This has been known since the SJW agenda started. Nothing can be majority white without being seen as problematic. Not even white countries.

It's almost like the nationalist talking points were true all along.

Who would've guessed.


I think people should stop letting themselves fall into either the far right or the far left. Being in the middle is better because both sides have legitimate concerns and there's no reason why we can't do right by everyone.
The Admiral 17 hours ago#25
More liberal stupidity.

This is why you guys keep losing elections.
- The Admiral
Ammonitida 17 hours ago#26
FLUFFYGERM posted...
NINExATExSEVEN posted...
FLUFFYGERM posted...
Funbazooka posted...
Diversity is code for anti-white, essentially.


I've seen people deny this to no end, but then situations like these seem to suggest that diversity really is code for anti-white.


This has been known since the SJW agenda started. Nothing can be majority white without being seen as problematic. Not even white countries.

It's almost like the nationalist talking points were true all along.

Who would've guessed.


I think people should stop letting themselves fall into either the far right or the far left. Being in the middle is better because both sides have legitimate concerns and there's no reason why we can't do right by everyone.


It's too late for NINE.
unbias 17 hours ago#27
The progressive stack is blowing up in their face. Good thing nobody predicted this would happen...
Well Hell...
Ammonitida 17 hours ago#28
Funbazooka posted...
Diversity is code for anti-white, essentially.


In nearly every situation I've seen this discussed by "SJWs", they were talking about professions that were disproportionately white and male. Hollywood is the usual target, and there is indeed a lack of racial diversity in starring movie roles. In the movies opening next week, 90% of them have a nearly all white cast. The lone exception is a Tyler Perry movie. The US population is not 90% white.
Ammonitida 16 hours ago#29
NINExATExSEVEN posted...
FLUFFYGERM posted...
Funbazooka posted...
Diversity is code for anti-white, essentially.


I've seen people deny this to no end, but then situations like these seem to suggest that diversity really is code for anti-white.


This has been known since the SJW agenda started. Nothing can be majority white without being seen as problematic. Not even white countries.

It's almost like the nationalist talking points were true all along.

Who would've guessed.


I still remember when you wrote #isolatedincident and #notall in a topic about a minority who committed a crime. I'm totes not shocked that you also subscribe to the "diversity is codeword for anti-white" nonsense. 

It's almost like the white nationalist talking points were true all along.


You forgot "white" there. Don't be afraid to type it.
NINExATExSEVEN 16 hours ago#30
Ammonitida posted...
NINExATExSEVEN posted...
FLUFFYGERM posted...
Funbazooka posted...
Diversity is code for anti-white, essentially.


I've seen people deny this to no end, but then situations like these seem to suggest that diversity really is code for anti-white.


This has been known since the SJW agenda started. Nothing can be majority white without being seen as problematic. Not even white countries.

It's almost like the nationalist talking points were true all along.

Who would've guessed.


I still remember when you wrote #isolatedincident and #notall in a topic about a minority who committed a crime. I'm totes not shocked that you also subscribe to the "diversity is codeword for anti-white" nonsense. 

It's almost like the white nationalist talking points were true all along.


You forgot "white" there. Don't be afraid to type it.


What's your point? It's WHITE countries that are being bombarded with the "diversity is amazing" argument and if they refuse that overused mantra, they are problematic.

It's always diversity diversity diversity when it comes to too many white people in X thing.

So yea, whites like to stand up for themselves. What a shocker.
Listen to my story... This... May be our last chance...
Spooking 16 hours ago#31
Another reason to dislike Apple. Samsung all the way.
Prism Ranger (Red): Isn't it obvious? We don't have any friends!
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fire810 16 hours ago#32
Ammonitida posted...
Funbazooka posted...
Diversity is code for anti-white, essentially.


In nearly every situation I've seen this discussed by "SJWs", they were talking about professions that were disproportionately white and male. Hollywood is the usual target, and there is indeed a lack of racial diversity in starring movie roles. In the movies opening next week, 90% of them have a nearly all white cast. The lone exception is a Tyler Perry movie. The US population is not 90% white.


so does that mean you're in favor of quotas and regulations in people's creativity?
"This weapon, I am." - Paul Atreides
#33
(message deleted)
Memstar 13 hours ago#34
Ammonitida posted...
Funbazooka posted...
Diversity is code for anti-white, essentially.

In nearly every situation I've seen this discussed by "SJWs", they were talking about professions that were disproportionately white and male. Hollywood is the usual target, and there is indeed a lack of racial diversity in starring movie roles. In the movies opening next week, 90% of them have a nearly all white cast. The lone exception is a Tyler Perry movie. The US population is not 90% white.

Hollywood is disproportionately something else too... why is one talked about and not the other?
Why should we care about either?
LightningAce11 13 hours ago#35
In countries such as America, white men are considered to be the default, the norm. In other countries such as India, they would be "diverse".
"I'm an atheist too but still believe in hell. That's where you're headed pal." - Mr_Karate_II
Dash_Harber 13 hours ago#36
Funbazooka posted...
Diversity is code for anti-white, essentially.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

"Why can't we go back to the good old days when we had clear distinctions between them and us?"
Drasilor 13 hours ago#37
Funbazooka posted...
Diversity is code for anti-white, essentially.
#mypresidentistrump
XHJYFL 11 hours ago#38
Drasilor posted...
Funbazooka posted...
Diversity is code for anti-white, essentially.
LinksLiege 11 hours ago#39
FLUFFYGERM posted...
I think people should stop letting themselves fall into either the far right or the far left. Being in the middle is better because both sides have legitimate concerns and there's no reason why we can't do right by everyone.

Too bad the middle has hardly any voice and gets thrashed for daring to suggest both sides have problems. (inb4 "both sides durhur")

This political climate makes me glad I'm a nihilist. I'll do what I can to make things better but, if it ends up not being enough, then hey - at least I didn't ruin everything. I'll just sit back and watch it all collapse.
This is LinksLiege's signature. It is fantastic.
(edited 11 hours ago)reportquote
Memstar 11 hours ago#40
Dash_Harber posted...
Funbazooka posted...
Diversity is code for anti-white, essentially.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

"Why can't we go back to the good old days when we had clear distinctions between them and us?"

As opposed to the era of SJWs and alt-rightists?
bump
"If the day does not require an AK, it is good." The Great Warrior Poet, Ice Cube
FLUFFYGERM 4 hours ago#42
Meanwhile, the cast of Black Panther "is hella diverse"

https://imgur.com/a/bOkHE
Darkman124 4 hours ago#43
Ammonitida posted...
In nearly every situation I've seen this discussed by "SJWs", they were talking about professions that were disproportionately white and male. Hollywood is the usual target, and there is indeed a lack of racial diversity in starring movie roles. In the movies opening next week, 90% of them have a nearly all white cast. The lone exception is a Tyler Perry movie. The US population is not 90% white.


This is a well-thought out point, and I want to look into a detail of it. I find the idea that businesses undermine their own bottom line for emotional reasons unlikely. Do we have data on the demographics of the US moviegoing population? Is it possible that despite whites being only about 70% of the population, they are a significantly outsized portion of those who see films in theatres?

I think it is sensible for a firm to tailor the demographics of their leadership around their customer base to at least some extent in order to maximize product penetration.
And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not.
(edited 4 hours ago)reportquote
jimbiz 3 hours ago#44
LightningAce11 posted...
In countries such as America, white men are considered to be the default, the norm. In other countries such as India, they would be "diverse".

funny how people ignore this

And now yall complaining abotu diversity? Yall were talking shit about PoC when we wanted diversity but since diversity supposedly doesn't include white people, yall are mad? Lol cry me a river
Toronto Raptors' fan and Kofi Kingston's brother.
#BLACKEXCELLENCE #IMBLACKANDIMPROUD
Lorenzo_2003 3 hours ago#45
Darkman124 posted...
I find the idea that businesses undermine their own bottom line for emotional reasons unlikely. Do we have data on the demographics of the US moviegoing population? Is it possible that despite whites being only about 70% of the population, they are a significantly outsized portion of those who see films in theatres?

I think it is sensible for a firm to tailor the demographics of their leadership around their customer base to at least some extent in order to maximize product penetration.


That is a fair consideration to make. When it comes to movies, I prefer the argument that racial diversity (or the lack of it) should only be a factor if it makes sense to the production of a movie as an artistic endeavor. In a perfect world, studios wouldn't have to worry about making decisions based on profit, and definitely not because of social pressures. They would just make kickass movies (or laid back, deep introspective ones, I guess). This is why I would be Ok with a movie being mostly white, mostly black, or whatever as long as the artistic product is better for it. I know that when I watch Black Panther, the last thing on my mind will be this movie sure could use more Vietnamese people. I mean that would make it more diverse, but it probably wouldn't make much sense.

Obviously we do not live in a perfect world, so the focus on increasing sales and bowing to social pressure will probably not end any time soon.
...
FLUFFYGERM 3 hours ago#46
jimbiz posted...
LightningAce11 posted...
In countries such as America, white men are considered to be the default, the norm. In other countries such as India, they would be "diverse".

funny how people ignore this

And now yall complaining abotu diversity? Yall were talking shit about PoC when we wanted diversity but since diversity supposedly doesn't include white people, yall are mad? Lol cry me a river


If skin color is all it takes to be diverse, then "diversity" is meaningless and indirectly racist. There doesn't need to be race quotas in order for the playing field to be fair.
Darkman124 3 hours ago#47
Lorenzo_2003 posted...
Darkman124 posted...
I find the idea that businesses undermine their own bottom line for emotional reasons unlikely. Do we have data on the demographics of the US moviegoing population? Is it possible that despite whites being only about 70% of the population, they are a significantly outsized portion of those who see films in theatres?

I think it is sensible for a firm to tailor the demographics of their leadership around their customer base to at least some extent in order to maximize product penetration.


That is a fair consideration to make. When it comes to movies, I prefer the argument that racial diversity (or the lack of it) should only be a factor if it makes sense to the production of a movie as an artistic endeavor. In a perfect world, studios wouldn't have to worry about making decisions based on profit, and definitely not because of social pressures. They would just make kickass movies (or laid back, deep introspective ones, I guess). This is why I would be Ok with a movie being mostly white, mostly black, or whatever as long as the artistic product is better for it. I know that when I watch Black Panther, the last thing on my mind will be this movie sure could use more Vietnamese people. I mean that would make it more diverse, but it probably wouldn't make much sense.

Obviously we do not live in a perfect world, so the focus on increasing sales and bowing to social pressure will probably not end any time soon.


Mhm. I'd certainly like for films to focus on artistry, but I know ultimately that market penetration is a priority when they're investing a hundred million dollars into production.

Same goes for anything. It's why most big-budget games have relatively simplistic mechanics and writing. Mass appeal. I know where to go to find the products that appeal to me, and I don't begrudge the big guys for trying to increase shareholder value. 

I don't even really begrudge them for rigging our political system to their benefit; I blame the system for allowing them to do so and want to change it so they can't.

But I have to remind myself that as a result of this I always can find something that does appeal to both my interests and my power fantasies. A black person might have a harder time than me in finding something he can self-insert with. Understanding why people ask for diversity can be tough when we are not directly impacted by a lack of it, but not getting mad about it is probably a good first step whether we agree with the calls or not (and I certainly don't always agree).
And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not.
(edited 3 hours ago)reportquote
FLUFFYGERM 3 hours ago#48
Darkman124 posted...
A black person might have a harder time than me in finding something he can self-insert with.


I can sympathize with this. It's nice for every child to see their own race represented in their favorite show or product line. But there's a difference between wanting that and outright attacking white people. The way things are going are not good at all. Consider the reaction to Apple's VP of Diversity. What she said was reasonable, yet she was still subject to tremendous backlash and hatred. 

The entire rhetoric around "diversity" has become toxic, divisive, and subversive. Inclining towards the formation of a caste system complete with its own set of untouchables.
FLUFFYGERM 3 hours ago#49
Darkman124 posted...
Understanding why people ask for diversity can be tough when we are not directly impacted by a lack of it, but not getting mad about it is probably a good first step whether we agree with the calls or not (and I certainly don't always agree).


What do you think about this take on diversity?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/03/bbc-criticised-by-mps-and-job-applicants-over-training-placement/
ClockworkHare 3 hours ago#50
She was correct in her hypothetical once individuality is considered. 12 white men who all look the same can still have elements of diversity. It just wouldn't look like it in a photo.

That's kind of an underlying point she was trying to make. Just because a dozen individuals all look the same does not equate to them being identical in other traits; they're still capable of diversity.

It's actually a common point made when speaking against racial stereotypes targeting minorities.
Unfortunately she made the miscalculation of presuming that the militants in her audience could grasp that rudimentary concept....

That being said, whoever jumped to the conclusion that her hypothetical statement implied support of white-dominated environments likely gets lost in cardboard boxes.

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    FLUFFYGERM 3 hours ago#51
    ClockworkHare posted...
    She was correct in her hypothetical once individuality is considered. 12 white men who all look the same can still have elements of diversity. It just wouldn't look like it in a photo.

    That's kind of an underlying point she was trying to make. Just because a dozen individuals all look the same does not equate to them being identical in other traits; they're still capable of diversity.

    It's actually a common point made when speaking against racial stereotypes targeting minorities.
    Unfortunately she made the miscalculation of presuming that the militants in her audience could grasp that rudimentary concept....

    That being said, whoever jumped to the conclusion that her hypothetical statement implied support of white-dominated environments likely gets lost in cardboard boxes.

    3IdNS21


    Well said.
    Darkman124 3 hours ago#52
    FLUFFYGERM posted...
    Darkman124 posted...
    Understanding why people ask for diversity can be tough when we are not directly impacted by a lack of it, but not getting mad about it is probably a good first step whether we agree with the calls or not (and I certainly don't always agree).


    What do you think about this take on diversity?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/03/bbc-criticised-by-mps-and-job-applicants-over-training-placement/


    I think it's important to consider it in context: are there thousands of other positions also being offered by the parent company that are open to everyone, making this specific one constitute a minimal reduction in net hiring chance for the white applicants? 

    Or are these the only positions they're hiring for at the moment?

    In the former case, it's NBD, because typically a white applicant isn't losing out on the job to a mildly less qualified minority applicant, but rather to the fifty other significantly more qualified white applicants.

    In the latter case, it certainly is cause for criticism, though I think still probably not fury, since other companies exist that aren't making such decisions, so it doesn't constitute a widespread, systematic bias against the white race, but rather one company doing something kinda shitty. So call that for what it is and then move on.

    Basically I ask myself two questions when I see diversity that appears to be done wrong:

    "What is the context?"

    and

    "Is this really worth my anger?"
    And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not.
    FLUFFYGERM 2 hours ago#53
    Darkman124 posted...
    I think it's important to consider it in context: are there thousands of other positions also being offered by the parent company that are open to everyone, making this specific one constitute a minimal reduction in net hiring chance for the white applicants? 

    Or are these the only positions they're hiring for at the moment?

    In the former case, it's NBD, because typically a white applicant isn't losing out on the job to a mildly less qualified minority applicant, but rather to the fifty other significantly more qualified white applicants.

    In the latter case, it certainly is cause for criticism, though I think still probably not fury, since other companies exist that aren't making such decisions, so it doesn't constitute a widespread, systematic bias against the white race, but rather one company doing something kinda s***ty. So call that for what it is and then move on.


    Treating candidates differently because of their skin color is racist and not okay. Regardless of whether or not there's other job opportunities that aren't doing that. If a company wanted to address white poverty by considering only white candidates, your tune would be different. 

    Darkman124 posted...
    Basically I ask myself two questions when I see diversity that appears to be done wrong:

    "What is the context?"

    and

    "Is this really worth my anger?"


    It's worth discussing because discussion will end the practice, which would be a good thing for future generations. Restricting employment opportunities based on skin color is racist, all the time.
    Darkman124 2 hours ago#54
    FLUFFYGERM posted...
    It's worth discussing


    definitely agreed that it's worth discussing. 

    the rest of your post makes me giggle, i do enjoy you.
    And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not.
    FLUFFYGERM 2 hours ago#55
    Darkman124 posted...
    FLUFFYGERM posted...
    It's worth discussing


    definitely agreed that it's worth discussing. 

    the rest of your post makes me giggle, i do enjoy you.


    You know, I resisted the urge to troll you with feigned outrage. I decided to give a serious response to what was a surprising weasel post from you of all people. I'd appreciate if you'd do the same in return, especially on matters like these.

    There is no context in which the BBC's actions are okay, and you'd have no problem agreeing with me if the BBC was trying to do the same thing on behalf of poor white people instead.
    Ammonitida 2 hours ago#56
    Darkman124 posted...
    Ammonitida posted...
    In nearly every situation I've seen this discussed by "SJWs", they were talking about professions that were disproportionately white and male. Hollywood is the usual target, and there is indeed a lack of racial diversity in starring movie roles. In the movies opening next week, 90% of them have a nearly all white cast. The lone exception is a Tyler Perry movie. The US population is not 90% white.


    This is a well-thought out point, and I want to look into a detail of it. I find the idea that businesses undermine their own bottom line for emotional reasons unlikely. Do we have data on the demographics of the US moviegoing population? Is it possible that despite whites being only about 70% of the population, they are a significantly outsized portion of those who see films in theatres?

    I think it is sensible for a firm to tailor the demographics of their leadership around their customer base to at least some extent in order to maximize product penetration.


    42% of the movie going population is non-Hispanic white.

    https://www.movieguide.org/news-articles/hollywood-demographics-2.html

    We have seen movies with minority leads, terrible movies even, rake in box office gold.

    The Fast and Furious franchise is a good example. I believe its diverse cast is part of the reason for its success (and its over-the-top- action scenes which appeal to a lot of people for some reason). The "Fate of the Furious" is one of the handful of movies to break the 1 billion dollar threshold in earnings. The cast was mostly non-white.
    Darkman124 2 hours ago#57
    FLUFFYGERM posted...

    There is no context in which the BBC's actions are okay, and you'd have no problem agreeing with me if the BBC was trying to do the same thing on behalf of poor white people instead.


    What you're leaving out here is relative demographic probability of poverty. White people are not predisposed to be poor.

    If such a program for 'economically disadvantaged white people' were enacted, as opposed to 'all white people' i'd be fine with it (and really, it'd be very little different from one for 'economically disadvantaged people'). i've always viewed socioeconomic status as the largest individual driver of social inequality.

    The reason this is not needed for minorities, is that demographically such a large portion of most minority groups are poor that you don't even need to specify that. 

    I do think that socioeconomic status is generally the best thing to prioritize for advantaged hiring, regardless.
    And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not.
    (edited 2 hours ago)reportquote
    FLUFFYGERM 2 hours ago#58
    Darkman124 posted...
    What you're leaving out here is relative demographic probability of poverty. White people are not predisposed to be poor.


    That is not consistent with what the Bernie bros have been saying about income inequality.

    Darkman124 posted...
    If such a program for 'economically disadvantaged white people' were enacted, as opposed to 'all white people' i'd be fine with it (and really, it'd be very little different from one for 'economically disadvantaged people'). i've always viewed socioeconomic status as the largest individual driver of social inequality.


    At least you're consistent. But being consistent and wrong is still wrong. Hiring someone just because of their skin color makes zero sense. I'd be more in favor of having a stronger jobs program for people who are not making enough to make ends meet. That wouldn't require filtering by skin color, which means it's not racist.
    Ammonitida 2 hours ago#59
    fire810 posted...
    Ammonitida posted...
    Funbazooka posted...
    Diversity is code for anti-white, essentially.


    In nearly every situation I've seen this discussed by "SJWs", they were talking about professions that were disproportionately white and male. Hollywood is the usual target, and there is indeed a lack of racial diversity in starring movie roles. In the movies opening next week, 90% of them have a nearly all white cast. The lone exception is a Tyler Perry movie. The US population is not 90% white.


    so does that mean you're in favor of quotas and regulations in people's creativity?


    I don't see any issue with casting directors making more of an effort to hire minorities for leading roles (and not Samuel Jackson over and over again either).
    Darkman124 2 hours ago#60
    Ammonitida posted...

    42% of the movie going population is non-Hispanic white.

    https://www.movieguide.org/news-articles/hollywood-demographics-2.html

    We have seen movies with minority leads, terrible movies even, rake in box office gold.

    The Fast and Furious franchise is a good example. I believe its diverse cast is part of the reason for its success (and its over-the-top- action scenes which appeal to a lot of people for some reason). The "Fate of the Furious" is one of the handful of movies to break the 1 billion dollar threshold in earnings. The cast was mostly non-white.


    interesting. I think data on the demographics of people who view successful, diverse casted films is also worth investigating. 

    It surprises me that hollywood could potentially be missing out on significant growth to its income stream. 

    Might also need to investigate diversity within genre.
    And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not.
    Darkman124 2 hours ago#61
    FLUFFYGERM posted...
    At least you're consistent. But being consistent and wrong is still wrong. Hiring someone just because of their skin color makes zero sense. I'd be more in favor of having a stronger jobs program for people who are not making enough to make ends meet. That wouldn't require filtering by skin color, which means it's not racist.


    I do agree with this.
    And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not.
    foreveraIone 2 hours ago#62
    hollywood has a diverse audience look at how much china plays into it
    Ammonitida 2 hours ago#63
    Darkman124 posted...
    Ammonitida posted...

    42% of the movie going population is non-Hispanic white.

    https://www.movieguide.org/news-articles/hollywood-demographics-2.html

    We have seen movies with minority leads, terrible movies even, rake in box office gold.

    The Fast and Furious franchise is a good example. I believe its diverse cast is part of the reason for its success (and its over-the-top- action scenes which appeal to a lot of people for some reason). The "Fate of the Furious" is one of the handful of movies to break the 1 billion dollar threshold in earnings. The cast was mostly non-white.


    interesting. I think data on the demographics of people who view successful, diverse casted films is also worth investigating. 

    It surprises me that hollywood could potentially be missing out on significant growth to its income stream. 

    Might also need to investigate diversity within genre.


    Another recent success was "Straight Outta Compton", which earned 200 million on a 50 million dollar budget. Pretty impressive for a movie about a musical band. How much did that Justin Bieber movie make? 30 million.
    Darkman124 2 hours ago#64
    Ammonitida posted...
    Another recent success was "Straight Outta Compton", which earned 200 million on a 50 million dollar budget. Pretty impressive for a movie about a musical band. How much did that Justin Bieber movie make? 30 million.


    4x return on investment is actually pretty typical for a successful hollywood film iirc

    i think we'd need to look at broad statistical data to see if the companies are acting against their shareholders' best interest

    it's just hard to imagine they'd be doing since they are shareholders themselves
    And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not.
    thanosibe 2 hours ago#65
    Lorenzo_2003 posted...
    Darkman124 posted...
    I find the idea that businesses undermine their own bottom line for emotional reasons unlikely. Do we have data on the demographics of the US moviegoing population? Is it possible that despite whites being only about 70% of the population, they are a significantly outsized portion of those who see films in theatres?

    I think it is sensible for a firm to tailor the demographics of their leadership around their customer base to at least some extent in order to maximize product penetration.


    That is a fair consideration to make. When it comes to movies, I prefer the argument that racial diversity (or the lack of it) should only be a factor if it makes sense to the production of a movie as an artistic endeavor. In a perfect world, studios wouldn't have to worry about making decisions based on profit, and definitely not because of social pressures. They would just make kickass movies (or laid back, deep introspective ones, I guess). This is why I would be Ok with a movie being mostly white, mostly black, or whatever as long as the artistic product is better for it. I know that when I watch Black Panther, the last thing on my mind will be this movie sure could use more Vietnamese people. I mean that would make it more diverse, but it probably wouldn't make much sense.

    Obviously we do not live in a perfect world, so the focus on increasing sales and bowing to social pressure will probably not end any time soon.
    Both of these points are reasonable if we are to assume (outside of outright polling or surveying a test sample) that the majority of Americans only connect or can find a character relative to them by virtue of their skin color, gender, or sexual preference. In other words, is Black Panther going to draw more African American movie goers because the cast is mostly African American. By the same virtue is the John Wick movies attracting more white Americans because of a lead white actor. This assumption is one of the more frustrating things about discussing diversity, because it assume these are the only factors that people consider when watching a movie or consuming some other fiction. Which is/can be erroneous to reality.

    But yes, either way reality really is a business, is always going to cater to profit. And that is not any less reasonable to assume in a "creative business" than it is an HVAC business.
    I think I need a drink. Almost everybody does only they don't know it. -- Charles Bukowski
    Gheb 1 hour ago#66
    FLUFFYGERM posted...
    Meanwhile, the cast of Black Panther "is hella diverse"

    https://imgur.com/a/bOkHE

    While that tweet isn't good, it's worth noting that people praising Black Pather's casting are saying it's adding diversity to the Hollywood blockbuster population of which there are minimal movies staring predominately black casts.

    The movie itself is not diverse in its casting. Nor should be since it's taking place in an isolated African country.
    S*** I have to stop doing that," Gheb said, as he lay back down and died again. - Forgotten Love
    Chiefs are going to win the Super Bowl
    NINExATExSEVEN 58 minutes ago#67
    Gheb posted...
    FLUFFYGERM posted...
    Meanwhile, the cast of Black Panther "is hella diverse"

    https://imgur.com/a/bOkHE

    While that tweet isn't good, it's worth noting that people praising Black Pather's casting are saying it's adding diversity to the Hollywood blockbuster population of which there are minimal movies staring predominately black casts.

    The movie itself is not diverse in its casting. Nor should be since it's taking place in an isolated African country.


    I want to see the movie but i hate the actor they chose to play black panther. He's too boyish looking. Doesn't look primal at all like wolverine or saber tooth. I expect my animal super heroes to look badass.
    Listen to my story... This... May be our last chance...
    FLUFFYGERM 57 minutes ago#68
    Gheb posted...
    FLUFFYGERM posted...
    Meanwhile, the cast of Black Panther "is hella diverse"

    https://imgur.com/a/bOkHE

    While that tweet isn't good, it's worth noting that people praising Black Pather's casting are saying it's adding diversity to the Hollywood blockbuster population of which there are minimal movies staring predominately black casts.

    The movie itself is not diverse in its casting. Nor should be since it's taking place in an isolated African country.


    That's what you're saying that they're saying. They don't have that level of nuance. To them, the film is diverse because it's mostly non-white. The reaction to the Apple VP of Diversity proves that.
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